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[Music]

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you're in the para cast the gold

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standard of paranormal radio and now

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here's gene Steinberg so we are now also

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heard on a radio station in Arkansas

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I'll tell you more about that in a few

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moments it's 25 thousand watt radio

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station now I know most of you listeners

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don't care about watts and all that

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stuff you care about mpg but not watts

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well the deal about Watts is the more

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Watts a station has the more power it

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has the more people can hear it so we're

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on kqe W 102.3 fm in Arkansas the

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station has 25,000 watts sleep boy that

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can burn you I'll tell you don't want to

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step and fry that transmitter you know

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you talk about frying speaking of frying

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I don't know about you but you know when

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we broke the story on the para cast a

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few weeks ago about the fake educational

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credentials of Phil and Bragg no I

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expected people to line up to maybe

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defend him but somehow they're playing

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the game of shoot the messenger and we

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happen to be the messenger here okay

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gotcha Kevlar Jean well you know I wear

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my bat suit well it has the Kevlar the

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special futuristic Kevlar with the

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memory cloth and all that stuff I'm

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ready but you have to let this thing

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roll over you but it's crazy I mean I

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didn't say that Phil and Brock no didn't

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go to MIT MIT said that so I guess we

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should blame MIT maybe all the flames

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should be focused on MIT what about the

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other educational institutions let's go

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after them too huh or wait a minute the

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military his military credentials or

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faked let's go after the military and

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fight them and we discovered a new

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school that he claimed you went to

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Northeastern where's that for the

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northwestern what a

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never dove northeastern Wow alright I

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figured I figured I'd throw that one in

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there

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the more you look the more schools I

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think and the more degrees are being

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claimed so I know it's very easy online

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to get yourself a college degree you

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send somebody a couple hundred dollars a

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print a beautiful degree there are also

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online educational institutions

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perfectly perfectly legitimate you can't

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go to class you're disabled or you're

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working you really can't go to class

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you take your courses online and maybe

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you do have to show up at some point in

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time in the class to deal with some

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issues but you get a real degree it's

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recognized you know well the other

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question I have is would anyone take

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fill in Brock knows claims less

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seriously or more seriously if he didn't

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add all the baggage of fake degrees well

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that was one of the reasons why I was

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particularly impressed with his work is

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because of his scientific credentials

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and educational credentials I mean that

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to me legitimized certain aspects of his

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opinion in thinking although he did toss

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around some pop-culture words like

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wormholes and portals and things like

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that fairly liberally which always kind

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of struck me as being a little strange

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but but I think yes gene I think all

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those credentials do tend to add to the

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gravitas of a person's a you know

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viewpoint opinion so well then of course

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that particular point in time some

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people suggest well now we should vet

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all our guests submit their degrees so

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we can investigate this we have to set

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up an HR department you know yeah to

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understand I'm sure of it 98 or 99

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percent of the people who claim to have

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degrees undergraduate advanced degrees

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half the degrees they claim to have so

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to investigate every degree like that

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well you know it gets to be ridiculous

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it's not something we could do we could

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afford to do and certainly we're not

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going to ask each person with a military

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background or alleged military

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background to send us their credentials

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salsa preposterous because you know

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again the vast majority of people 98 99

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percent don't have the figures but

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expect I'm pretty much in the ballpark

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people who had claimed to have degrees

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people who claim a military background

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it's genuine

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the only time you question it is if in

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some other way they do things that make

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you suspect them what where they go too

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far maybe that was the downfall of an

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brog no he went too far he tried too

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hard to prove he was what he claimed to

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be you know of course that that

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photograph of him in the MIT sweatshirt

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pathological about it something

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sociopathic about the whole thing I just

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wished it you know it would just go away

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it's getting ridiculous out there

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well it's interesting here I talked

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several times of Jim Mosely about this

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and frankly speaking

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other than the book that he co-authored

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with J Allen Hynek and Bob Pratt nights

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each back in the 1980s Jim hadn't heard

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of the other 15 or 20 books he wrote so

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to him and Brogdon L was a nonentity and

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maybe that's the whole point let's shall

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we say make him a nonentity except and I

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will say it again if he offers to come

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on the show and speak the truth and

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nothing but the truth and he's not going

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to be under oath but you get the point

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we've led him on otherwise

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oh absolutely that would be that would

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be an interesting show Jean right I want

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to hear about the seal degree I don't

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want to hear that he actually went to

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school under a different name because

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the UFO paparazzi were going to come

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after him but I'm really more disgusted

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not so much in what he did because I

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think he's out of the picture pretty

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much by now it's all these other people

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who have made online flame wars out of

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this issue and the question is why

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what's the point you know if they can

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prove he really had those credentials

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okay right well that's one thing but

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sure that's not gonna happen no if they

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can prove fine but otherwise what do

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they have to say well I think basically

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it boils down to there

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they're calling this a baby in the

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bathwater scenario that there's too many

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people willing to throw all his work

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under the bus and then just discount

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everything and their argument is that

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you know the guy did do some good work

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so you you know we need to remember that

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but how do you take it seriously how do

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you know how can you take it seriously

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sure how do you know if he lies about

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his educational background he lies about

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his military background and this is you

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know one of the issues axiomatic in

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court you know in court if you prove

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that somebody on the stand has lied

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about one or more issues you could use

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that as legitimate evidence to say he

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lies here he could have lied there as

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well yeah I'm interested to know if he

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really went to the Middle East if he

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really had those experiences in Oman and

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had dinner with a nephew of this Sultan

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or whatever let's see the seats the

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plane tickets yeah no one the stamps on

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this passport sure and you know there's

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some question whether whether those

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trips took place so if you can come up

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with a scenario that isn't true within

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the work itself then you know you might

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as well just burn your copies of his

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books I can I hate to say that but it

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does call everything into question back

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to the publisher and demand a refund

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saying you were different

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hmm listen let's set that aside

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no the wandering in the online

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blogosphere is not gonna end you know

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the paper episode podcast will continue

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to talk about it till the end of time

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and somehow we will be the victims as

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long as I spell our names right but

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we're not gonna mention their names we

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have a fascinating guest for us today on

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the power cast tell us about it well

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Paul betting is up I think a new face on

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the block here I just recently was made

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aware of him by a very interesting paper

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that he published asking and calling for

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a serious new ufology and I was so

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struck by his thinking and his very

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grounded

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- the 64-year conundrum that we've been

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all enamored with for so long and I

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think he brought up some really good

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points in that paper and he's also since

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then written another paper and so I

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thought he would be a really good person

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to get on the show to get a fresh

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perspective and really look at where

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this fractious field is headed and what

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are the elements that we should be

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looking at that we've been sort of

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forced for the tree he's been ignoring

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and I think this is gonna be a really

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good show and I'm really looking forward

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to kicking some of these ideas around

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Paul's also a I guess a young Arian

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academic he's self-taught but has

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immersed himself in call Young's work

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okay we're gonna get into that Paul but

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[Music]

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that's news at the podcast.com and don't

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well here we are another edition in the

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parrot cast and I'm really pleased to

340
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have Paul budding all the way from from

341
00:14:56,040 --> 00:14:53,130
Britain we're gonna be talking about

342
00:14:59,250 --> 00:14:56,050
some interesting papers that he's

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00:15:00,990 --> 00:14:59,260
written recently and also I think we'd

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00:15:03,810 --> 00:15:01,000
like to at least I would like to get

345
00:15:08,610 --> 00:15:03,820
into some of the young Arian carl jung's

346
00:15:10,530 --> 00:15:08,620
thinking about archetypes and you know

347
00:15:15,300 --> 00:15:10,540
the UFO phenomenon of course his last

348
00:15:16,740 --> 00:15:15,310
book was written about UFOs and i think

349
00:15:18,690 --> 00:15:16,750
that we're gonna have a fun time there

350
00:15:21,450 --> 00:15:18,700
Paul why don't you give our listeners a

351
00:15:25,470 --> 00:15:21,460
little background about who you are and

352
00:15:29,250 --> 00:15:25,480
how you came to start the UFO Institute

353
00:15:32,370 --> 00:15:29,260
which is a I guess a kind of an umbrella

354
00:15:33,780 --> 00:15:32,380
organization that you've set up to to

355
00:15:36,090 --> 00:15:33,790
look at some of these mysteries that

356
00:15:37,080 --> 00:15:36,100
we're all in so enthralled by so once

357
00:15:42,930 --> 00:15:37,090
you give us a little background about

358
00:15:44,910 --> 00:15:42,940
yourself ecology and the previous member

359
00:15:50,040 --> 00:15:44,920
of the International Association for

360
00:15:52,860 --> 00:15:50,050
Jungian studies with an American writer

361
00:15:54,780 --> 00:15:52,870
Calabar that stick out it was who's a

362
00:15:58,380 --> 00:15:54,790
member of the International Association

363
00:16:01,020 --> 00:15:58,390
for your own studies and he's even got a

364
00:16:03,540 --> 00:16:01,030
little bit about UFOs a felony and I

365
00:16:07,050 --> 00:16:03,550
mean his book you're on mythology even

366
00:16:08,490 --> 00:16:07,060
not even say sex drugs from your

367
00:16:10,770 --> 00:16:08,500
anything's on UFOs

368
00:16:13,650 --> 00:16:10,780
anyway family might take my degrees in

369
00:16:15,810 --> 00:16:13,660
social science and after and as a person

370
00:16:18,600 --> 00:16:15,820
set of counselor got a slight interest

371
00:16:20,430 --> 00:16:18,610
in the technological singularity across

372
00:16:23,190 --> 00:16:20,440
the reason why he is cuz I got

373
00:16:25,660 --> 00:16:23,200
interested in UFO your thought phenomena

374
00:16:30,060 --> 00:16:27,700
and start since the chew off which is

375
00:16:32,550 --> 00:16:30,070
broadly excited about turning yet

376
00:16:36,760 --> 00:16:32,560
awkward helped on the technical side

377
00:16:39,510 --> 00:16:36,770
it's about you know the computer side of

378
00:16:41,860 --> 00:16:39,520
it from someone called Nathan was Mac

379
00:16:43,710 --> 00:16:41,870
it's very computer savvy unifies

380
00:16:46,270 --> 00:16:43,720
excellent health

381
00:16:50,620 --> 00:16:46,280
well how long have you been interested

382
00:16:53,590 --> 00:16:50,630
in UFOs oh goes back to when I was a

383
00:16:57,900 --> 00:16:53,600
child but not being like seriously

384
00:17:00,550 --> 00:16:57,910
interested in it and you know beyond

385
00:17:03,250 --> 00:17:00,560
that so I think we are in the movies

386
00:17:05,650 --> 00:17:03,260
yeah well getting interest in it to

387
00:17:08,680 --> 00:17:05,660
write anything about it is just really

388
00:17:10,360 --> 00:17:08,690
this year all right about it well from

389
00:17:15,100 --> 00:17:10,370
the young connection or the last few

390
00:17:16,390 --> 00:17:15,110
years and so so this this whole recent

391
00:17:19,050 --> 00:17:16,400
spate of writing that you've done is

392
00:17:21,460 --> 00:17:19,060
pretty much your sort of introduction

393
00:17:24,460 --> 00:17:21,470
we're introducing yourself to the field

394
00:17:27,160 --> 00:17:24,470
let's talk a little bit about beyond the

395
00:17:28,840 --> 00:17:27,170
living myth from serious old you

396
00:17:30,880 --> 00:17:28,850
followed you to serious new ufology

397
00:17:33,910 --> 00:17:30,890
which is a paper that you interestingly

398
00:17:36,010 --> 00:17:33,920
enough published on you know the United

399
00:17:38,920 --> 00:17:36,020
States Independence Day on July 4th of

400
00:17:41,950 --> 00:17:38,930
this year I brought me brought me to

401
00:17:43,570 --> 00:17:41,960
brought you to my attention and why

402
00:17:46,120 --> 00:17:43,580
don't you give us a little bit of

403
00:17:48,100 --> 00:17:46,130
background on you know how long it took

404
00:17:50,830 --> 00:17:48,110
you to come up with this this idea or

405
00:17:53,230 --> 00:17:50,840
this analysis of the situation and what

406
00:17:55,600 --> 00:17:53,240
what has prompted you to to go ahead and

407
00:17:57,760 --> 00:17:55,610
create the you know the the new the

408
00:18:01,210 --> 00:17:57,770
serious new ufology Institute as you

409
00:18:04,000 --> 00:18:01,220
call it because interests in young

410
00:18:08,200 --> 00:18:04,010
before it's had to I'd say when the

411
00:18:10,900 --> 00:18:08,210
views formed bit by bit but I'm going to

412
00:18:12,970 --> 00:18:10,910
start off with the psychology side of it

413
00:18:15,250 --> 00:18:12,980
because it's easy to imagine that it's

414
00:18:16,900 --> 00:18:15,260
all psychological especially if you

415
00:18:19,090 --> 00:18:16,910
flights the deity on it's easy but I

416
00:18:21,010 --> 00:18:19,100
imagine that people are interested in it

417
00:18:22,870 --> 00:18:21,020
because it's fascinating it gives them

418
00:18:27,100 --> 00:18:22,880
all and I'm sure there's a lot of that

419
00:18:28,930 --> 00:18:27,110
but that is involved what don't think

420
00:18:31,240 --> 00:18:28,940
it's all explained by that because it

421
00:18:34,180 --> 00:18:31,250
does seem if it is some intelligently

422
00:18:35,530 --> 00:18:34,190
controlled craft in the skies and this

423
00:18:38,290 --> 00:18:35,540
you're probably very very very familiar

424
00:18:39,350 --> 00:18:38,300
with so um

425
00:18:43,430 --> 00:18:39,360
even for example

426
00:18:46,070 --> 00:18:43,440
or Jung says they fixed a conscious and

427
00:18:49,490 --> 00:18:46,080
unconscious fantasy a big role in

428
00:18:51,620 --> 00:18:49,500
building nocturnal and the psychological

429
00:18:55,520 --> 00:18:51,630
explanation seems at first that must be

430
00:18:57,410 --> 00:18:55,530
the case but then he says and so far as

431
00:19:00,260 --> 00:18:57,420
I know it remains an established fact

432
00:19:02,930 --> 00:19:00,270
supported by numerous observations that

433
00:19:04,370 --> 00:19:02,940
UFOs now not only have been visually but

434
00:19:07,760 --> 00:19:04,380
I've also been picked up on the radar

435
00:19:10,250 --> 00:19:07,770
screen left trace on their photographic

436
00:19:12,950 --> 00:19:10,260
plate so I understand nothing less than

437
00:19:15,230 --> 00:19:12,960
this the Tifa psychic projections

438
00:19:17,360 --> 00:19:15,240
brought back a really dark or or else

439
00:19:19,760 --> 00:19:17,370
the appearance of real objects of art an

440
00:19:21,530 --> 00:19:19,770
opportunity for mythological projections

441
00:19:24,670 --> 00:19:21,540
we would often share archetypal

442
00:19:28,220 --> 00:19:24,680
projections they have lots of society

443
00:19:31,690 --> 00:19:28,230
but like I said and there's this

444
00:19:35,000 --> 00:19:31,700
projection idea that people are going to

445
00:19:36,950 --> 00:19:35,010
I've got the feelings of fascination I

446
00:19:39,890 --> 00:19:36,960
can defend that so it's like a modern

447
00:19:42,950 --> 00:19:39,900
religion but well then again I said this

448
00:19:47,620 --> 00:19:42,960
there was this the news crafts are seen

449
00:19:56,140 --> 00:19:50,360
UFOs or other new killer facilities in

450
00:19:59,570 --> 00:19:56,150
America see with dolphins work on the

451
00:20:02,420 --> 00:19:59,580
declassified documents that show so that

452
00:20:05,830 --> 00:20:02,430
UFOs have been chased by the military in

453
00:20:09,020 --> 00:20:05,840
America and other places and

454
00:20:10,760 --> 00:20:09,030
nevertheless if if the ET hypothesis by

455
00:20:12,350 --> 00:20:10,770
portent commonly known as Earth then

456
00:20:15,250 --> 00:20:12,360
that is a coincidence because us men

457
00:20:18,580 --> 00:20:15,260
leave their projection that UFO buffs

458
00:20:21,680 --> 00:20:18,590
throw onto the what to see in the skies

459
00:20:25,070 --> 00:20:21,690
but the theories are as you probably

460
00:20:26,780 --> 00:20:25,080
know with the dimensional time travelers

461
00:20:29,810 --> 00:20:26,790
so it could be human if I'm secret

462
00:20:32,000 --> 00:20:29,820
government some weather materials the

463
00:20:34,520 --> 00:20:32,010
trickster I mean there's all sorts of

464
00:20:36,220 --> 00:20:34,530
theories out there what I've what I've

465
00:20:38,720 --> 00:20:36,230
noticed in your paper is that you very

466
00:20:40,400 --> 00:20:38,730
sort of methodically and very logically

467
00:20:44,450 --> 00:20:40,410
address some of the more popular

468
00:20:46,310 --> 00:20:44,460
theories and look at the at the possible

469
00:20:50,270 --> 00:20:46,320
implications of these particular

470
00:20:53,190 --> 00:20:50,280
theories and how perhaps more than there

471
00:20:55,930 --> 00:20:53,200
is no one-size-fits-all typing

472
00:20:57,250 --> 00:20:55,940
according to your thinking and that we

473
00:21:00,910 --> 00:20:57,260
should be looking I think a little bit

474
00:21:03,580 --> 00:21:00,920
more broadly at the at the the whole

475
00:21:05,890 --> 00:21:03,590
phenomenon in the mystery and and really

476
00:21:07,780 --> 00:21:05,900
looking at our motivations I think you

477
00:21:10,150 --> 00:21:07,790
just sort of hinted around at that I

478
00:21:14,020 --> 00:21:10,160
think you use the term living myth in

479
00:21:16,990 --> 00:21:14,030
your in your paper which I it it rings

480
00:21:19,060 --> 00:21:17,000
true to me this has been my thinking for

481
00:21:22,810 --> 00:21:19,070
quite some time now we're seeing the

482
00:21:25,330 --> 00:21:22,820
emergence of a sort of a new model of

483
00:21:28,630 --> 00:21:25,340
religion and religious belief and of

484
00:21:30,940 --> 00:21:28,640
course Jacques Vallee who most of our

485
00:21:33,640 --> 00:21:30,950
listeners are quite aware of did address

486
00:21:35,380 --> 00:21:33,650
this in messengers of deception which i

487
00:21:37,660 --> 00:21:35,390
think is a very important book that not

488
00:21:40,150 --> 00:21:37,670
only I think not enough people in the

489
00:21:42,040 --> 00:21:40,160
field have read or reread and so why

490
00:21:45,460 --> 00:21:42,050
don't you give us you know from your

491
00:21:48,850 --> 00:21:45,470
background as you Marian but someone

492
00:21:51,760 --> 00:21:48,860
that has studied and works with with the

493
00:21:53,800 --> 00:21:51,770
young school of thought in psychology

494
00:21:56,620 --> 00:21:53,810
why don't you give us your breakdown of

495
00:21:59,800 --> 00:21:56,630
how the extra-terrestrial hypothesis

496
00:22:01,810 --> 00:21:59,810
myth for instance appears to you and in

497
00:22:09,820 --> 00:22:01,820
the role that it plays in the field

498
00:22:11,710 --> 00:22:09,830
right now I think that probably a

499
00:22:15,460 --> 00:22:11,720
majority of people that means just watch

500
00:22:19,540 --> 00:22:15,470
a TV show and some charge of an inch I'm

501
00:22:21,820 --> 00:22:19,550
sorry yeah but there the mother might

502
00:22:24,220 --> 00:22:21,830
not think about UFO phenomena much more

503
00:22:26,230 --> 00:22:24,230
than from what the see and it's what a

504
00:22:27,970 --> 00:22:26,240
kit on your kitchen Lisi they might not

505
00:22:30,880 --> 00:22:27,980
think about all the time but once

506
00:22:32,860 --> 00:22:30,890
they've seen it for my crap that shows

507
00:22:36,580 --> 00:22:32,870
discs in the sky reconstructions you

508
00:22:38,980 --> 00:22:36,590
know that I might attached a bit they my

509
00:22:40,840 --> 00:22:38,990
attached to that might wipe the feeling

510
00:22:44,050 --> 00:22:40,850
they get from that and in that size

511
00:22:46,810 --> 00:22:44,060
Union in the sense that still no one

512
00:22:50,740 --> 00:22:46,820
don't want to believe like wanting to

513
00:22:52,600 --> 00:22:50,750
believe in God so akka it's not sorted

514
00:22:54,820 --> 00:22:52,610
religious figuring yeah I'll tell you

515
00:22:57,040 --> 00:22:54,830
what Paul will pursue this in our next

516
00:23:02,440 --> 00:22:57,050
segment I'm Jean Steinberg the co-host

517
00:23:08,360 --> 00:23:05,170
[Music]

518
00:23:10,820 --> 00:23:08,370
Ray Perkins a reclusive veteran burned

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out from the Gulf War lives tortured by

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relentless perplexing nightmares

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space and of a mysterious woman

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suffering and agony for her devastated

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world a woman not yet born calling

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across centuries to him then a

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coincidence leads him to his destiny his

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the rottens the former fiction editor

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for Star Wars and Indiana Jones Robert

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610
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source for Independence all three heels

611
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or over

612
00:27:15,029 --> 00:27:11,830
decade we are the gcn radio network hi

613
00:27:17,789 --> 00:27:15,039
this is Don Ecker and you are tuned into

614
00:27:20,399 --> 00:27:17,799
the para cast let me tell you what

615
00:27:25,680 --> 00:27:20,409
you're gonna hear stuff here that you

616
00:27:30,409 --> 00:27:28,110
we're back with Paul budding and his

617
00:27:33,779 --> 00:27:30,419
organization is called the serious new

618
00:27:36,830 --> 00:27:33,789
ufology Institute and we're exploring

619
00:27:39,299 --> 00:27:36,840
belief systems UFO investigations

620
00:27:41,759 --> 00:27:39,309
Jungian psychology and lots more

621
00:27:43,440 --> 00:27:41,769
Chris you want to pick up on this well

622
00:27:46,350 --> 00:27:43,450
before we went to break we were talking

623
00:27:48,060 --> 00:27:46,360
about people maybe with a casual

624
00:27:50,850 --> 00:27:48,070
interest in this subject seeing a show

625
00:27:54,149 --> 00:27:50,860
that that fascinates them and creates a

626
00:27:56,310 --> 00:27:54,159
sense of awe so we do have to factor the

627
00:27:58,860 --> 00:27:56,320
media in here I think at the ground

628
00:28:01,560 --> 00:27:58,870
level because the media is responsible

629
00:28:04,499 --> 00:28:01,570
for creating belief systems in people

630
00:28:08,070 --> 00:28:04,509
that are maybe not motivated enough to

631
00:28:10,409 --> 00:28:08,080
do their own research and find out what

632
00:28:12,330 --> 00:28:10,419
rings true for them based on their own

633
00:28:14,039 --> 00:28:12,340
personal study they allow the media to

634
00:28:16,560 --> 00:28:14,049
sort of do their thinking for them I

635
00:28:18,869 --> 00:28:16,570
guess would be a way to put it this this

636
00:28:21,389 --> 00:28:18,879
is always to me is always been I think a

637
00:28:23,249 --> 00:28:21,399
major stumbling block for the field to

638
00:28:25,019 --> 00:28:23,259
move forward why don't you address the

639
00:28:29,399 --> 00:28:25,029
media in the world at the media plays

640
00:28:31,440 --> 00:28:29,409
here all sorts to being supposed to

641
00:28:34,259 --> 00:28:31,450
believe so when you get the opinion

642
00:28:36,570 --> 00:28:34,269
polls do you believe in UFOs it's

643
00:28:39,360 --> 00:28:36,580
probably a bias to slanting to say yes I

644
00:28:41,600 --> 00:28:39,370
do because that's what you want simply

645
00:28:43,980 --> 00:28:41,610
my fingers have Fox Mulder in the

646
00:28:46,409 --> 00:28:43,990
x-files I think that the poster was

647
00:28:49,499 --> 00:28:46,419
anyone to believe yeah I want to believe

648
00:28:50,850 --> 00:28:49,509
yeah so I think this is a bit there's

649
00:28:52,919 --> 00:28:50,860
quite a lot of that is tied to the

650
00:28:54,720 --> 00:28:52,929
psychology side obviously what do you

651
00:29:00,119 --> 00:28:54,730
think that the way the question is being

652
00:29:03,299 --> 00:29:00,129
asked Paul skews the response I think

653
00:29:05,999 --> 00:29:03,309
that and ufology the UFO phenomenon can

654
00:29:07,680 --> 00:29:06,009
be a one religion hour nobody's next

655
00:29:10,560 --> 00:29:07,690
question is coming up in the polls can

656
00:29:12,779 --> 00:29:10,570
always skew Brock I think there is a

657
00:29:14,910 --> 00:29:12,789
bias towards wanting to believe but then

658
00:29:17,100 --> 00:29:14,920
again I think there's something

659
00:29:18,870 --> 00:29:17,110
as I think I'd leave this intelligently

660
00:29:21,360 --> 00:29:18,880
controlled craft out and I don't think

661
00:29:23,670 --> 00:29:21,370
it's because of some fascination and all

662
00:29:25,040 --> 00:29:23,680
that's making me think that now I think

663
00:29:27,870 --> 00:29:25,050
it is possible to look at it objectively

664
00:29:30,660 --> 00:29:27,880
but then we come back to the question

665
00:29:33,240 --> 00:29:30,670
that you might I'm interesting this is

666
00:29:35,730 --> 00:29:33,250
very very very intelligent guy and he's

667
00:29:39,060 --> 00:29:35,740
doctor declassified documents evolved in

668
00:29:42,870 --> 00:29:39,070
the nuclear weapon services and you

669
00:29:45,540 --> 00:29:42,880
could give a facility site and so he

670
00:29:48,120 --> 00:29:45,550
believes that this intelligent control

671
00:29:50,160 --> 00:29:48,130
crafter interfering with a nuclear

672
00:29:52,230 --> 00:29:50,170
weapons in America I should say before

673
00:29:55,620 --> 00:29:52,240
we go on that Robert Hastings the author

674
00:29:57,300 --> 00:29:55,630
of UFOs and nukes will be a guest again

675
00:29:59,310 --> 00:29:57,310
in the near future and the power cast

676
00:30:03,420 --> 00:29:59,320
has been on the past go ahead Paul but

677
00:30:05,550 --> 00:30:03,430
even even he jumps to the conclusion not

678
00:30:07,800 --> 00:30:05,560
for definite in credit he says that he's

679
00:30:10,410 --> 00:30:07,810
not certain as to speculating but even

680
00:30:13,290 --> 00:30:10,420
he believes that it's metis from other

681
00:30:15,450 --> 00:30:13,300
planets that are doing it so so you can

682
00:30:16,860 --> 00:30:15,460
lock into the subject seriously and come

683
00:30:19,680 --> 00:30:16,870
up with a certain conclusion by the

684
00:30:21,510 --> 00:30:19,690
points of vanitas's people who might say

685
00:30:22,050 --> 00:30:21,520
through the media through this shows on

686
00:30:24,690 --> 00:30:22,060
television

687
00:30:26,970 --> 00:30:24,700
we're just chromatic from from Howell it

688
00:30:29,400 --> 00:30:26,980
makes and feel or what it makes and want

689
00:30:33,060 --> 00:30:29,410
to believe you cannot buy a coincidence

690
00:30:35,280 --> 00:30:33,070
the same conclusion what let's go back a

691
00:30:38,190 --> 00:30:35,290
little bit to Carl Jung because he wrote

692
00:30:40,890 --> 00:30:38,200
this book back in the 50s which maybe

693
00:30:42,750 --> 00:30:40,900
three people read UFO is a modern myth

694
00:30:46,050 --> 00:30:42,760
or something of things seen in the sky

695
00:30:48,030 --> 00:30:46,060
now the issue here of course the thing

696
00:30:49,680 --> 00:30:48,040
that he talked about and this is where

697
00:30:52,310 --> 00:30:49,690
it kind of got maybe a little confused

698
00:30:56,490 --> 00:30:52,320
also he talked of a collective

699
00:30:59,460 --> 00:30:56,500
unconscious now for the sake of everyone

700
00:31:01,680 --> 00:30:59,470
we don't want to basically cause your

701
00:31:04,020 --> 00:31:01,690
minds to explode here a collective

702
00:31:07,250 --> 00:31:04,030
unconscious it's kind of means like a

703
00:31:09,750 --> 00:31:07,260
collective belief is that correct no

704
00:31:11,550 --> 00:31:09,760
really gene so how would you describe

705
00:31:14,570 --> 00:31:11,560
collective unconscious does that mean

706
00:31:23,220 --> 00:31:14,580
that the unconscious mind of all the

707
00:31:26,700 --> 00:31:23,230
people create the reality young thinks

708
00:31:27,790 --> 00:31:26,710
that's in it and already in human beings

709
00:31:30,760 --> 00:31:27,800
and everyone's

710
00:31:33,250 --> 00:31:30,770
and hence the suppose it's close beyond

711
00:31:34,840 --> 00:31:33,260
fights repressed unconscious when thinks

712
00:31:36,280 --> 00:31:34,850
he thinks it's all archetype something

713
00:31:38,590 --> 00:31:36,290
to come some emotions everyone's got the

714
00:31:40,930 --> 00:31:38,600
same emotions inside them that were the

715
00:31:45,100 --> 00:31:40,940
potential to out I mean I'm not a

716
00:31:47,860 --> 00:31:45,110
classical Union so but nevertheless and

717
00:31:51,550 --> 00:31:47,870
thinks that the archetypes like goes

718
00:31:56,020 --> 00:31:51,560
beyond personal complexes so I'm trying

719
00:31:58,330 --> 00:31:56,030
to think of an example the shadow is

720
00:32:00,100 --> 00:31:58,340
definitely a classic Yuri and exactly I

721
00:32:03,660 --> 00:32:00,110
know it's might be the most basic of the

722
00:32:05,950 --> 00:32:03,670
archetype that's why I've come I think

723
00:32:08,950 --> 00:32:05,960
he thinks that consciousness is

724
00:32:12,940 --> 00:32:08,960
individual well some because people's

725
00:32:15,730 --> 00:32:12,950
virtues is what's most unique about each

726
00:32:18,460 --> 00:32:15,740
individual and Jung's opinion but the

727
00:32:21,760 --> 00:32:18,470
shadow he thinks is very similar all the

728
00:32:23,680 --> 00:32:21,770
same but of course everyone their father

729
00:32:26,080 --> 00:32:23,690
shadow would be an archetype of the

730
00:32:29,020 --> 00:32:26,090
collective unconscious okay so how do we

731
00:32:31,390 --> 00:32:29,030
relate the concept of archetypes

732
00:32:35,380 --> 00:32:31,400
collective unconscious and everything to

733
00:32:37,870 --> 00:32:35,390
UFOs how did he envision UFOs in

734
00:32:41,890 --> 00:32:37,880
relation to all that and more simply

735
00:32:45,070 --> 00:32:41,900
that it was projection meaning into the

736
00:32:49,150 --> 00:32:45,080
skies I would say in in a very modern

737
00:32:51,220 --> 00:32:49,160
dress so all right well it's also it's a

738
00:32:54,310 --> 00:32:51,230
manifestation of the mandala which is

739
00:32:56,980 --> 00:32:54,320
also an archetypal an archetype that

740
00:32:59,830 --> 00:32:56,990
could found collectively in all cultures

741
00:33:02,200 --> 00:32:59,840
and correct me if I'm wrong but I think

742
00:33:04,390 --> 00:33:02,210
one of the things that he postulated was

743
00:33:08,560 --> 00:33:04,400
that the mandala is a symbol of

744
00:33:10,750 --> 00:33:08,570
completeness and with the Cold War you

745
00:33:13,450 --> 00:33:10,760
know really heated up in the early to

746
00:33:16,750 --> 00:33:13,460
mid 50s I think he wrote the book in 56

747
00:33:19,900 --> 00:33:16,760
or 57 if memory serves me correct but

748
00:33:22,000 --> 00:33:19,910
with the Cold War heating up he surmise

749
00:33:24,190 --> 00:33:22,010
that possibly you know people were

750
00:33:27,850 --> 00:33:24,200
projecting this this positive sort of

751
00:33:29,740 --> 00:33:27,860
symbol of completion into the reality as

752
00:33:33,520 --> 00:33:29,750
a way to sort of counteract the fear

753
00:33:36,600 --> 00:33:33,530
that was pretty al pible I think during

754
00:33:39,310 --> 00:33:36,610
the Cold War and in that the the mandala

755
00:33:42,070 --> 00:33:39,320
archetype is one that

756
00:33:44,230 --> 00:33:42,080
obviously he identified the ufo-shaped

757
00:33:48,160 --> 00:33:44,240
the shape of the disk the disk riddle

758
00:33:50,950 --> 00:33:48,170
shape as being a physical representation

759
00:33:53,830 --> 00:33:50,960
of a sort of a space-age mandala for

760
00:33:56,500 --> 00:33:53,840
lack of a better term also will you also

761
00:33:58,270 --> 00:33:56,510
state that maybe we projected UFOs

762
00:34:00,550 --> 00:33:58,280
originally because they would come here

763
00:34:03,160 --> 00:34:00,560
to save us from ourselves we couldn't

764
00:34:04,750 --> 00:34:03,170
get out of the Cold War the threat of a

765
00:34:07,240 --> 00:34:04,760
nuclear catastrophe

766
00:34:14,050 --> 00:34:07,250
so et had to come down here and take

767
00:34:15,640 --> 00:34:14,060
care of it very good point the sheriff

768
00:34:18,640 --> 00:34:15,650
of it as well being like a disc and

769
00:34:21,940 --> 00:34:18,650
healing was very big on compensation so

770
00:34:24,610 --> 00:34:21,950
like he said for the the water going for

771
00:34:26,400 --> 00:34:24,620
the cause while I have yeah he thought

772
00:34:29,860 --> 00:34:26,410
that this was very much compensation

773
00:34:31,780 --> 00:34:29,870
phenomenon but he did also seem to think

774
00:34:35,590 --> 00:34:31,790
that ultimately there was something

775
00:34:38,080 --> 00:34:35,600
physical to it it was real this was an

776
00:34:42,220 --> 00:34:38,090
issue in one of major Donald Kehoe's

777
00:34:45,580 --> 00:34:42,230
books okay where he basically had to get

778
00:34:49,360 --> 00:34:45,590
reassurance or reassure dr. young back

779
00:34:53,200 --> 00:34:49,370
in the 50s that he believed UFOs to be

780
00:34:56,020 --> 00:34:53,210
not just something that we imagined but

781
00:34:59,020 --> 00:34:56,030
something real it's tracked on radar

782
00:35:01,390 --> 00:34:59,030
it's a physical phenomenon it's a real

783
00:35:07,030 --> 00:35:01,400
spaceship you try to make that line of

784
00:35:09,130 --> 00:35:07,040
demarcation he didn't go into it they

785
00:35:11,020 --> 00:35:09,140
stuck with a psychology but you can see

786
00:35:13,720 --> 00:35:11,030
from some of the things he said and I

787
00:35:15,760 --> 00:35:13,730
quality that started the show and one of

788
00:35:17,350 --> 00:35:15,770
the things he said sure that he did

789
00:35:21,820 --> 00:35:17,360
actually except that there was something

790
00:35:23,980 --> 00:35:21,830
physically real to it but he stuck

791
00:35:26,380 --> 00:35:23,990
mainly to the psychological because he

792
00:35:29,440 --> 00:35:26,390
always said that he was first and

793
00:35:31,660 --> 00:35:29,450
foremost psychologist so how do we

794
00:35:33,550 --> 00:35:31,670
separate the psychological UFOs from the

795
00:35:44,170 --> 00:35:33,560
ones that have a external physical

796
00:35:48,580 --> 00:35:44,180
reality or didn't try to do that he just

797
00:35:50,560 --> 00:35:48,590
said that despite the fact that it was

798
00:35:52,020 --> 00:35:50,570
many sight that there was psychological

799
00:35:52,910 --> 00:35:52,030
there was a father

800
00:35:57,480 --> 00:35:52,920
think he thought it was a coincidence

801
00:36:00,390 --> 00:35:57,490
the projection of meaning in disguise

802
00:36:02,430 --> 00:36:00,400
the mandala the UFO was projected onto

803
00:36:03,030 --> 00:36:02,440
them the our fascination the are and all

804
00:36:05,580 --> 00:36:03,040
of that

805
00:36:07,770 --> 00:36:05,590
you think thinks those all saw something

806
00:36:14,120 --> 00:36:07,780
reveal to it and to disentangle that

807
00:36:16,560 --> 00:36:14,130
would be a very difficult job I think um

808
00:36:19,680 --> 00:36:16,570
he didn't you never actually went into

809
00:36:22,230 --> 00:36:19,690
where I'm anything about the ETS so

810
00:36:24,740 --> 00:36:22,240
whether he was I think he was just going

811
00:36:28,890 --> 00:36:24,750
to out as far as what I am and said

812
00:36:31,980 --> 00:36:28,900
there's something to the interim the

813
00:36:33,390 --> 00:36:31,990
intelligently controlled craft I'll tell

814
00:36:35,520 --> 00:36:33,400
you what began to more of this in our

815
00:36:38,280 --> 00:36:35,530
next segment Paul budding joining us and

816
00:36:42,060 --> 00:36:38,290
he has this organization which is called

817
00:36:44,190 --> 00:36:42,070
how's that it's the serious new ufology

818
00:36:46,110 --> 00:36:44,200
Institute there you go Paul budding

819
00:36:48,180 --> 00:36:46,120
joining us please send your comments

820
00:36:51,360 --> 00:36:48,190
about the show to news at the power cast

821
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comm news at the power cast calm I'm

822
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Jean Steinberg the co-host is Chris

823
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[Music]

824
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[Music]

919
00:41:33,380 --> 00:41:30,839
you do listen because we continue with

920
00:41:36,680 --> 00:41:33,390
Paul budding the organization is called

921
00:41:38,870 --> 00:41:36,690
the serious new ufology Institute and

922
00:41:41,960 --> 00:41:38,880
I'm gonna wanna draw a line of

923
00:41:44,569 --> 00:41:41,970
demarcation here between old ufology and

924
00:41:46,700 --> 00:41:44,579
new ufology because we used to use that

925
00:41:48,589 --> 00:41:46,710
term back in the 60s I don't know if

926
00:41:51,680 --> 00:41:48,599
Paul knows that co-host is Chris O'Brien

927
00:41:55,579 --> 00:41:51,690
I'm Jean Steinberg at that point in time

928
00:41:58,480 --> 00:41:55,589
in the UFO field we talked about ET

929
00:42:01,640 --> 00:41:58,490
coming here in physical space ships and

930
00:42:03,799 --> 00:42:01,650
for whatever purpose okay they tracked

931
00:42:07,250 --> 00:42:03,809
on radar sometimes photograph leave

932
00:42:10,670 --> 00:42:07,260
physical traces etc some of us came up

933
00:42:12,920 --> 00:42:10,680
with a new ufology concept and people

934
00:42:16,030 --> 00:42:12,930
like John keel were involved in this

935
00:42:20,780 --> 00:42:16,040
Jacque filet talking about the less than

936
00:42:23,260 --> 00:42:20,790
physical aspects of UFOs so Paul I put

937
00:42:26,390 --> 00:42:23,270
the question to you when you talk about

938
00:42:29,660 --> 00:42:26,400
serious old ufology before we define new

939
00:42:35,390 --> 00:42:29,670
ufology serious new ufology how do you

940
00:42:37,970 --> 00:42:35,400
define serious old ufology I'd say that

941
00:42:39,859 --> 00:42:37,980
the Declassified document which actually

942
00:42:42,289 --> 00:42:39,869
quite new refreshed but nevertheless

943
00:42:44,539 --> 00:42:42,299
look from you accumulate it's all these

944
00:42:46,730 --> 00:42:44,549
curses or on top and on top of each

945
00:42:49,280 --> 00:42:46,740
other and yet the fields never really

946
00:42:50,900 --> 00:42:49,290
progressed it's not really it's not

947
00:42:53,539 --> 00:42:50,910
really convinced the skeptics

948
00:42:55,880 --> 00:42:53,549
so I think thinking this is a

949
00:43:00,049 --> 00:42:55,890
declassified documents have come into

950
00:43:03,859 --> 00:43:00,059
the oven we can say that it seems to be

951
00:43:06,440 --> 00:43:03,869
clear to quite a few new academics on

952
00:43:09,109 --> 00:43:06,450
the scene that the military jets have

953
00:43:12,109 --> 00:43:09,119
been scrambled that the chair it's

954
00:43:15,109 --> 00:43:12,119
intelligently controlled craft that are

955
00:43:16,640 --> 00:43:15,119
running on now when more and more these

956
00:43:18,230 --> 00:43:16,650
cases build up in the future

957
00:43:20,420 --> 00:43:18,240
you couldn't define that as the

958
00:43:24,620 --> 00:43:20,430
audiology I mean not it's not

959
00:43:26,270 --> 00:43:24,630
discredited by I don't know faster

960
00:43:28,069 --> 00:43:26,280
magnifier all don't cut all the way

961
00:43:29,210 --> 00:43:28,079
above or something and they usually said

962
00:43:32,420 --> 00:43:29,220
to discredit it's not in this

963
00:43:35,510 --> 00:43:32,430
that sense as such but nonetheless

964
00:43:37,310 --> 00:43:35,520
serious new ufology might might want to

965
00:43:38,810 --> 00:43:37,320
think like we know about these cases

966
00:43:42,980 --> 00:43:38,820
there's one on top of the other all the

967
00:43:45,320 --> 00:43:42,990
time at least and it pork the yeah the

968
00:43:48,290 --> 00:43:45,330
british most famous british ufologist

969
00:43:50,960 --> 00:43:48,300
perhaps says that the pro 5% of these

970
00:43:54,080 --> 00:43:50,970
cases are genuine and he likes the books

971
00:43:57,460 --> 00:43:54,090
that Leslie king writes and you can say

972
00:44:00,800 --> 00:43:57,470
that less between and darlin that

973
00:44:02,859 --> 00:44:00,810
serious all you follow G and it's time

974
00:44:05,630 --> 00:44:02,869
that leads to think well why are these

975
00:44:08,180 --> 00:44:05,640
craft be serious knew your father G what

976
00:44:10,400 --> 00:44:08,190
what did it represents how the ETS are

977
00:44:12,830 --> 00:44:10,410
the time travelers other secret human

978
00:44:14,810 --> 00:44:12,840
and government no that's just because I

979
00:44:17,060 --> 00:44:14,820
categorize this I'm not chancing son

980
00:44:21,440 --> 00:44:17,070
like well there we go and everything

981
00:44:28,700 --> 00:44:21,450
started because you might say that some

982
00:44:31,940 --> 00:44:28,710
of the cases look clearly the Congress

983
00:44:34,460 --> 00:44:31,950
like for instance in 952 they look like

984
00:44:37,099 --> 00:44:34,470
possible there's something clearly going

985
00:44:39,920 --> 00:44:37,109
on here there's UFOs of Congress it's a

986
00:44:42,770 --> 00:44:39,930
national security breach and and also

987
00:44:45,410 --> 00:44:42,780
the Hairston's cases we refer to about

988
00:44:48,320 --> 00:44:45,420
the deactivation of nukes they're not

989
00:44:50,540 --> 00:44:48,330
like create clear cases but nevertheless

990
00:44:52,490 --> 00:44:50,550
there's still a problem remaining that

991
00:44:56,420 --> 00:44:52,500
we cannot say what exactly they are if

992
00:44:58,160 --> 00:44:56,430
they're 80 or not so I categorize it and

993
00:45:00,500 --> 00:44:58,170
it might sound by everybody I think it

994
00:45:02,270 --> 00:45:00,510
is to provide attacker eyes but it

995
00:45:03,800 --> 00:45:02,280
doesn't give us the answer what are they

996
00:45:06,680 --> 00:45:03,810
are not seeing this new follow Jesus

997
00:45:10,250 --> 00:45:06,690
question I would say well how do you go

998
00:45:12,290 --> 00:45:10,260
about separating out potential different

999
00:45:14,390 --> 00:45:12,300
players here in this scenario because it

1000
00:45:15,650 --> 00:45:14,400
does appear to me at least and I think a

1001
00:45:17,810 --> 00:45:15,660
lot of people that we're dealing with

1002
00:45:20,950 --> 00:45:17,820
something infinitely more complicated

1003
00:45:24,560 --> 00:45:20,960
than a simple ETH

1004
00:45:27,109 --> 00:45:24,570
one-size-fits-all answer we could have

1005
00:45:30,400 --> 00:45:27,119
secret military craft that have exotic

1006
00:45:32,750 --> 00:45:30,410
capabilities possibly remotely piloted

1007
00:45:35,060 --> 00:45:32,760
if there is some evidence to suggest

1008
00:45:37,070 --> 00:45:35,070
that there is a percentage of sightings

1009
00:45:39,620 --> 00:45:37,080
misconstrued as UFOs that are actually

1010
00:45:41,940 --> 00:45:39,630
very trustful in nature we also have

1011
00:45:44,670 --> 00:45:41,950
objects that appear to be metaphysical

1012
00:45:47,549 --> 00:45:44,680
in some sense they can appear and

1013
00:45:50,280 --> 00:45:47,559
disappear they can morph from one shape

1014
00:45:52,500 --> 00:45:50,290
into another shape they can appear

1015
00:45:53,640 --> 00:45:52,510
sometimes on radar but other times they

1016
00:45:55,079 --> 00:45:53,650
don't appear on radar

1017
00:45:58,380 --> 00:45:55,089
sometimes you'll have a group of

1018
00:45:59,970 --> 00:45:58,390
witnesses and only you know maybe nine

1019
00:46:01,980 --> 00:45:59,980
out of ten of the people will see the

1020
00:46:04,170 --> 00:46:01,990
actual object and and there are people

1021
00:46:06,329 --> 00:46:04,180
that actually can't even see it so how

1022
00:46:08,819 --> 00:46:06,339
do you separate all this out

1023
00:46:12,120 --> 00:46:08,829
how do you come up with some sort of

1024
00:46:15,030 --> 00:46:12,130
litmus test that's going to help

1025
00:46:22,559 --> 00:46:15,040
separate out each one of these potential

1026
00:46:24,900 --> 00:46:22,569
players two key babies and ones I think

1027
00:46:30,059 --> 00:46:24,910
I'm Nick cook not an apartment at cook

1028
00:46:32,910 --> 00:46:30,069
and he's very familiar with human

1029
00:46:34,289 --> 00:46:32,920
antigravity technology growing back till

1030
00:46:35,970 --> 00:46:34,299
the end of the Second World War

1031
00:46:38,520 --> 00:46:35,980
because you know the term you'll

1032
00:46:41,370 --> 00:46:38,530
probably know yourself that I'm American

1033
00:46:44,700 --> 00:46:41,380
captured by a German Nazis scientists

1034
00:46:46,859 --> 00:46:44,710
and they were working on projects that

1035
00:46:48,750 --> 00:46:46,869
there were discs of course the Nazi

1036
00:46:52,829 --> 00:46:48,760
scientist basically created our space

1037
00:46:55,829 --> 00:46:52,839
program yes and working on discs

1038
00:46:58,829 --> 00:46:55,839
apparently according to Nick cook and

1039
00:47:02,549 --> 00:46:58,839
this anti-gravity technology there was a

1040
00:47:05,400 --> 00:47:02,559
project to map the called the bear lumps

1041
00:47:08,010 --> 00:47:05,410
and it claims it was able to start time

1042
00:47:10,579 --> 00:47:08,020
and space this craft so there's a lot of

1043
00:47:13,890 --> 00:47:10,589
human technological side to it toughens

1044
00:47:16,890 --> 00:47:13,900
but nonetheless that guy hears things

1045
00:47:19,380 --> 00:47:16,900
again he's he disputes all this he says

1046
00:47:21,299 --> 00:47:19,390
that such technology couldn't possibly

1047
00:47:24,359 --> 00:47:21,309
exist as far back in as the authorities

1048
00:47:26,099 --> 00:47:24,369
but he says he sees the UFOs maneuvers

1049
00:47:28,260 --> 00:47:26,109
is doing says that couldn't possibly be

1050
00:47:30,329 --> 00:47:28,270
during the forties and the magnifier

1051
00:47:31,890 --> 00:47:30,339
could be done in the 80s he claims so

1052
00:47:34,079 --> 00:47:31,900
it's quite a big split between someone

1053
00:47:35,760 --> 00:47:34,089
like Nick cook and someone I bought it

1054
00:47:41,760 --> 00:47:35,770
here spinners yeah the four-seamer make

1055
00:47:43,140 --> 00:47:41,770
will close to me so anyone yes well Nick

1056
00:47:44,970 --> 00:47:43,150
cook for some of our listeners who might

1057
00:47:48,240 --> 00:47:44,980
not be familiar with him for many years

1058
00:47:50,520 --> 00:47:48,250
was the chief investigative reporter for

1059
00:47:52,289 --> 00:47:50,530
Jane's Defence weekly which I think has

1060
00:47:53,789 --> 00:47:52,299
probably still has the record of being

1061
00:47:55,200 --> 00:47:53,799
the oldest publication that's been

1062
00:47:57,950 --> 00:47:55,210
continuously published

1063
00:48:00,510 --> 00:47:57,960
he's done a number of very good

1064
00:48:02,960 --> 00:48:00,520
documentaries on the UFO subject and on

1065
00:48:06,240 --> 00:48:02,970
you know advanced potential black broad

1066
00:48:08,280 --> 00:48:06,250
project type programs one of them I

1067
00:48:10,859 --> 00:48:08,290
actually was in called billion-dollar

1068
00:48:15,470 --> 00:48:10,869
sequel which I do recommend it's online

1069
00:48:17,790 --> 00:48:15,480
you can see it on youtube so Hastings

1070
00:48:21,960 --> 00:48:17,800
also brings up the point which you bring

1071
00:48:23,849 --> 00:48:21,970
up in your paper that if it is us exotic

1072
00:48:27,270 --> 00:48:23,859
black technology why would they be going

1073
00:48:30,450 --> 00:48:27,280
over there our own nuclear weapon sites

1074
00:48:31,980 --> 00:48:30,460
and messing around with turning turning

1075
00:48:33,809 --> 00:48:31,990
nukes off and that sort of thing it

1076
00:48:35,309 --> 00:48:33,819
doesn't make sense to hasting so we

1077
00:48:37,290 --> 00:48:35,319
would be doing that to ourselves and

1078
00:48:40,730 --> 00:48:37,300
that's a point well taken but but

1079
00:48:43,260 --> 00:48:40,740
perhaps there is some sort of

1080
00:48:45,809 --> 00:48:43,270
psychological warfare program going on

1081
00:48:49,200 --> 00:48:45,819
testing the the effectiveness of our of

1082
00:48:52,140 --> 00:48:49,210
our personality inside these maybe these

1083
00:48:53,940 --> 00:48:52,150
are tests that they're been acting on on

1084
00:48:56,849 --> 00:48:53,950
our own personnel so there-there are

1085
00:48:59,670 --> 00:48:56,859
possible scenarios that could be looked

1086
00:49:02,099 --> 00:48:59,680
at that would fit into a black budget

1087
00:49:04,920 --> 00:49:02,109
you know exotic terrestrial craft

1088
00:49:07,289 --> 00:49:04,930
scenario but it is it is an interesting

1089
00:49:09,930 --> 00:49:07,299
point that he does raise about why would

1090
00:49:11,760 --> 00:49:09,940
we want to turn off our own nuclear

1091
00:49:14,010 --> 00:49:11,770
weapon systems or freak out the

1092
00:49:17,370 --> 00:49:14,020
personnel who are Manning them because

1093
00:49:20,490 --> 00:49:17,380
once something scary like that happens

1094
00:49:22,319 --> 00:49:20,500
you tend to you know ratchet up the

1095
00:49:23,910 --> 00:49:22,329
potential for some sort of accident to

1096
00:49:26,780 --> 00:49:23,920
happen and maybe some of these things

1097
00:49:29,339 --> 00:49:26,790
get fired off it for some reason you

1098
00:49:31,380 --> 00:49:29,349
back in the cold where you just you know

1099
00:49:32,819 --> 00:49:31,390
we got to the brink on quite a number of

1100
00:49:35,370 --> 00:49:32,829
occasions that most people don't know

1101
00:49:38,400 --> 00:49:35,380
about and you know this whole political

1102
00:49:39,930 --> 00:49:38,410
situation was a powder keg so yeah I am

1103
00:49:41,280 --> 00:49:39,940
in the midst of reading his book and

1104
00:49:44,579 --> 00:49:41,290
I'll tell you there are quite a number

1105
00:49:45,420 --> 00:49:44,589
of very well documented examples of

1106
00:49:47,609 --> 00:49:45,430
overflights

1107
00:49:50,299 --> 00:49:47,619
of these the types of weapons facilities

1108
00:49:53,460 --> 00:49:50,309
and actual nuclear power plants and

1109
00:49:56,339 --> 00:49:53,470
whatnot you can you come up with an idea

1110
00:49:59,250 --> 00:49:56,349
of how to possibly you know look at

1111
00:50:01,770 --> 00:49:59,260
anecdotal information in the old ufology

1112
00:50:04,200 --> 00:50:01,780
way and possibly glean some sort of

1113
00:50:06,630 --> 00:50:04,210
indication of what these things are

1114
00:50:08,410 --> 00:50:06,640
based on the type of report it is do you

1115
00:50:11,140 --> 00:50:08,420
think that's even possible

1116
00:50:15,250 --> 00:50:11,150
and while I'm stuck between Nick cook

1117
00:50:17,349 --> 00:50:15,260
and Hastings on on this their arguments

1118
00:50:21,900 --> 00:50:17,359
like he said I have thought about the

1119
00:50:24,279 --> 00:50:21,910
point that why would and I can

1120
00:50:27,849 --> 00:50:24,289
intelligence and struck down their own

1121
00:50:30,640 --> 00:50:27,859
nuke so that's what I want

1122
00:50:34,750 --> 00:50:30,650
what Hairston as a search he said Oh a

1123
00:50:37,329 --> 00:50:34,760
psychological test that said by I think

1124
00:50:42,220 --> 00:50:37,339
Jacques Vallee concern in Rendlesham

1125
00:50:45,670 --> 00:50:42,230
forest which is Nick Poor's forever back

1126
00:50:48,779 --> 00:50:45,680
topic in newer for UFO phenomenon nor

1127
00:50:53,259 --> 00:50:48,789
induction forests in the early 1980s in

1128
00:50:55,240 --> 00:50:53,269
Britain was a US military base and craft

1129
00:50:59,069 --> 00:50:55,250
actually was supposed to party landed

1130
00:51:01,750 --> 00:50:59,079
saw something very convincing proof

1131
00:51:03,130 --> 00:51:01,760
almost like them well not not almost

1132
00:51:06,130 --> 00:51:03,140
landing at the White House but the next

1133
00:51:08,829 --> 00:51:06,140
nearest thing landing on a military base

1134
00:51:10,329 --> 00:51:08,839
and everyone going to see it and Jack

1135
00:51:12,160 --> 00:51:10,339
Farley thinks that that kiss is so

1136
00:51:14,410 --> 00:51:12,170
convincing that's must have been a

1137
00:51:15,970 --> 00:51:14,420
psychological test so if the point you

1138
00:51:17,200 --> 00:51:15,980
raised there are psychological tests

1139
00:51:19,779 --> 00:51:17,210
it's an interesting theory

1140
00:51:22,480 --> 00:51:19,789
just some cases I think one of the

1141
00:51:25,630 --> 00:51:22,490
arguments made is that over the years in

1142
00:51:28,960 --> 00:51:25,640
addition to quote-unquote real UFOs

1143
00:51:32,680 --> 00:51:28,970
there have been some instances of

1144
00:51:36,460 --> 00:51:32,690
disinformation instances where someone

1145
00:51:38,289 --> 00:51:36,470
or somebody is playing a game testing

1146
00:51:40,299 --> 00:51:38,299
our reactions to different things maybe

1147
00:51:43,299 --> 00:51:40,309
testing our reaction to a possible

1148
00:51:45,400 --> 00:51:43,309
genuine visitation by et we'll have to

1149
00:51:47,529 --> 00:51:45,410
find out more Paul budding joins us I'm

1150
00:51:52,530 --> 00:51:47,539
Jean Steinberg the co-host is Chris

1151
00:51:57,790 --> 00:51:55,260
[Music]

1152
00:51:59,680 --> 00:51:57,800
hi this is Ted Anderson if you'd like to

1153
00:52:01,780 --> 00:51:59,690
listen to GCM programs on the goal I

1154
00:52:03,760 --> 00:52:01,790
have great news GCN has created a Droid

1155
00:52:06,100 --> 00:52:03,770
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1156
00:52:07,960 --> 00:52:06,110
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1157
00:52:09,250 --> 00:52:07,970
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1158
00:52:11,290 --> 00:52:09,260
you know it you'll be listening to your

1159
00:52:12,760 --> 00:52:11,300
favorite hard-hitting GCN shows live

1160
00:52:15,250 --> 00:52:12,770
around demand right on your drawing or

1161
00:52:17,320 --> 00:52:15,260
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1162
00:52:19,270 --> 00:52:17,330
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1163
00:52:21,100 --> 00:52:19,280
on the banner at GCC and live.com thanks

1164
00:52:23,410 --> 00:52:21,110
again for listening to GC and live.com

1165
00:52:24,730 --> 00:52:23,420
again that's juicy and live.com we the

1166
00:52:26,650 --> 00:52:24,740
people grow cotton wheat fabric

1167
00:52:28,090 --> 00:52:26,660
engraving can bed strips and fibers to

1168
00:52:29,710 --> 00:52:28,100
protect from counterfeit than carding to

1169
00:52:30,130 --> 00:52:29,720
a private bank having a led back at

1170
00:52:31,750 --> 00:52:30,140
interest

1171
00:52:33,430 --> 00:52:31,760
forcing taxes to service debt this

1172
00:52:34,750 --> 00:52:33,440
capitalism was Jefferson correct when

1173
00:52:36,220 --> 00:52:34,760
stating a central bank issuing the

1174
00:52:37,270 --> 00:52:36,230
public currency is a greater menace to

1175
00:52:38,500 --> 00:52:37,280
the liberties of the people than a

1176
00:52:39,790 --> 00:52:38,510
standing army today understand I'm

1177
00:52:41,470 --> 00:52:39,800
placing a free silver dollar in a book

1178
00:52:44,620 --> 00:52:41,480
that explains our monetary system call

1179
00:52:47,500 --> 00:52:44,630
for your copy 800 686 to 237 it's time

1180
00:52:56,350 --> 00:52:47,510
to understand the system call 866 to 237

1181
00:52:58,510 --> 00:52:56,360
that's 800 686 to 237 welcome back to

1182
00:53:02,140 --> 00:52:58,520
the pair test the gold standard of

1183
00:53:06,190 --> 00:53:02,150
paranormal radio and now here's gene

1184
00:53:11,040 --> 00:53:07,940
[Music]

1185
00:53:14,310 --> 00:53:11,050
this is the second hour of the para cast

1186
00:53:17,520 --> 00:53:14,320
the host is Jean Steinberg co-host Chris

1187
00:53:21,420 --> 00:53:17,530
O'Brien Paul budding is our guest and he

1188
00:53:23,730 --> 00:53:21,430
is exploring new ufology and old ufology

1189
00:53:26,610 --> 00:53:23,740
and I think one question I would ask

1190
00:53:31,290 --> 00:53:26,620
right up front before we get on with our

1191
00:53:35,160 --> 00:53:31,300
discussion is Paul do you think that we

1192
00:53:37,650 --> 00:53:35,170
are too stuck in the old ufology when it

1193
00:53:39,600 --> 00:53:37,660
comes to UFO investigation it's like

1194
00:53:43,140 --> 00:53:39,610
we're repeating the same stuff we heard

1195
00:53:49,770 --> 00:53:43,150
back in the 1950s over and over and over

1196
00:53:53,850 --> 00:53:49,780
again to a large extent yes I think the

1197
00:53:56,490 --> 00:53:53,860
declassified documents but maybe some

1198
00:53:59,490 --> 00:53:56,500
people at the scene and to the UFO scene

1199
00:54:02,250 --> 00:53:59,500
who wouldn't otherwise be here now and a

1200
00:54:05,310 --> 00:54:02,260
brilliant example of that is Mitch your

1201
00:54:07,770 --> 00:54:05,320
Kaku when dust as the Kings book so I

1202
00:54:12,840 --> 00:54:07,780
think that the declassification of

1203
00:54:16,520 --> 00:54:12,850
documents as being a big help to the UFO

1204
00:54:19,020 --> 00:54:16,530
ufology field and it's also encouraging

1205
00:54:22,590 --> 00:54:19,030
some people who have looked a lot into

1206
00:54:24,870 --> 00:54:22,600
the diamond to you know come out and

1207
00:54:26,820 --> 00:54:24,880
surveyed our settlement that was a great

1208
00:54:30,330 --> 00:54:26,830
endorsement there was a theory

1209
00:54:33,120 --> 00:54:30,340
theoretical physicist popular popular

1210
00:54:36,870 --> 00:54:33,130
theoretical physicist these rocks into

1211
00:54:39,180 --> 00:54:36,880
all kinds of areas hyperspace the

1212
00:54:43,080 --> 00:54:39,190
singularity he's well-respected in

1213
00:54:46,940 --> 00:54:43,090
within science and teaching tasks they

1214
00:54:50,210 --> 00:54:46,950
said that beware for anonymous real so

1215
00:54:52,680 --> 00:54:50,220
think it's making very slow progress but

1216
00:54:54,480 --> 00:54:52,690
I'm not one of those who says that the

1217
00:54:57,300 --> 00:54:54,490
chloric disclosures coming imminently

1218
00:55:00,030 --> 00:54:57,310
though yeah that's that's a whole topic

1219
00:55:02,310 --> 00:55:00,040
of sub conversation right there so what

1220
00:55:04,200 --> 00:55:02,320
do you think of the XO political

1221
00:55:06,230 --> 00:55:04,210
movement and the disclosure movement do

1222
00:55:12,260 --> 00:55:06,240
you think it has a snowball's chance in

1223
00:55:14,760 --> 00:55:12,270
Iraq to stay stay unmelted notice that

1224
00:55:18,210 --> 00:55:14,770
he says I'm just going to be disclosure

1225
00:55:20,430 --> 00:55:18,220
in 2008 2009 2010

1226
00:55:21,780 --> 00:55:20,440
so that really is dis hot and it makes

1227
00:55:25,140 --> 00:55:21,790
me think it's probably not the case and

1228
00:55:26,580 --> 00:55:25,150
besides I'm not sure looks the u.s.

1229
00:55:29,640 --> 00:55:26,590
Tsaritsa to be earned that the

1230
00:55:33,870 --> 00:55:29,650
president's etc I'm not sure that they

1231
00:55:35,700 --> 00:55:33,880
know what is going on um the I think

1232
00:55:38,340 --> 00:55:35,710
Clinton girlfriend money was president

1233
00:55:40,860 --> 00:55:38,350
wouldn't once I said someone I like

1234
00:55:43,650 --> 00:55:40,870
seven island and them in front of me

1235
00:55:45,660 --> 00:55:43,660
right she asked why this for anything

1236
00:55:48,630 --> 00:55:45,670
about this for sure and Bill Clinton

1237
00:55:51,210 --> 00:55:48,640
said something like so this government

1238
00:55:53,370 --> 00:55:51,220
inside the government and I'll control

1239
00:55:58,590 --> 00:55:53,380
it it was that's right across the exact

1240
00:56:01,280 --> 00:55:58,600
walk and if that's true which my my

1241
00:56:05,520 --> 00:56:01,290
guess is that's what that is the case so

1242
00:56:09,450 --> 00:56:05,530
I think that I think that the u.s. elite

1243
00:56:12,060 --> 00:56:09,460
I don't I think they're probably not

1244
00:56:14,130 --> 00:56:12,070
there's something out there there's a so

1245
00:56:16,440 --> 00:56:14,140
no on its intelligently controlled to

1246
00:56:18,180 --> 00:56:16,450
craft I think that we must know about

1247
00:56:21,180 --> 00:56:18,190
what stuff yes things cause on the boat

1248
00:56:24,030 --> 00:56:21,190
there must know how Congress lights from

1249
00:56:26,250 --> 00:56:24,040
the early 50s but I don't think that

1250
00:56:29,220 --> 00:56:26,260
they kind of announce anything because

1251
00:56:31,200 --> 00:56:29,230
they can't sure there's something out

1252
00:56:34,830 --> 00:56:31,210
there that messes on with our nuclear

1253
00:56:37,320 --> 00:56:34,840
weapons invades our airspace and flew

1254
00:56:39,750 --> 00:56:37,330
over Congress and what we don't know

1255
00:56:42,150 --> 00:56:39,760
what it is that this woman sounds it's

1256
00:56:43,560 --> 00:56:42,160
like the sort of thing that American

1257
00:56:45,450 --> 00:56:43,570
government or any other government could

1258
00:56:48,420 --> 00:56:45,460
announce well the other question always

1259
00:56:50,570 --> 00:56:48,430
gets to be this Paul is governments in

1260
00:56:53,160 --> 00:56:50,580
general tend to be inefficient

1261
00:56:56,040 --> 00:56:53,170
incompetent they are reactive not

1262
00:56:59,340 --> 00:56:56,050
proactive so can they keep a secret for

1263
00:57:02,970 --> 00:56:59,350
64 years I think the answer is that the

1264
00:57:04,800 --> 00:57:02,980
craft that's I'm sorry balanced today

1265
00:57:07,500 --> 00:57:04,810
would have to be that that craft would

1266
00:57:11,280 --> 00:57:07,510
have dear land crash in a city or

1267
00:57:13,710 --> 00:57:11,290
something like that and I think that the

1268
00:57:16,620 --> 00:57:13,720
fact that they haven't had to announce

1269
00:57:18,570 --> 00:57:16,630
that this was speaks for itself right

1270
00:57:20,910 --> 00:57:18,580
last thing government's want to do is

1271
00:57:22,680 --> 00:57:20,920
admit that they're impotent in any

1272
00:57:24,900 --> 00:57:22,690
situation

1273
00:57:26,490 --> 00:57:24,910
one thing that I've kind of noticed is

1274
00:57:29,730 --> 00:57:26,500
all these other countries that have been

1275
00:57:31,900 --> 00:57:29,740
slowly declassifying their files I've

1276
00:57:35,380 --> 00:57:31,910
always had a hunch that this is too

1277
00:57:38,230 --> 00:57:35,390
to keep the heat off the US every you

1278
00:57:40,210 --> 00:57:38,240
know six to nine months another country

1279
00:57:44,940 --> 00:57:40,220
releases another batch I think it's just

1280
00:57:48,609 --> 00:57:44,950
slowly keeping the you know the glare of

1281
00:57:49,900 --> 00:57:48,619
publicity off the US government and that

1282
00:57:51,730 --> 00:57:49,910
these other countries are slowly

1283
00:57:55,690 --> 00:57:51,740
releasing this information as part of a

1284
00:57:58,059 --> 00:57:55,700
very well coordinated program probably

1285
00:58:01,650 --> 00:57:58,069
as you pointed out orchestrated by the

1286
00:58:04,620 --> 00:58:01,660
US but having said that you know again

1287
00:58:08,470 --> 00:58:04,630
restate my question is there any way

1288
00:58:11,410 --> 00:58:08,480
using the tenants and the approach of

1289
00:58:14,200 --> 00:58:11,420
old ufology is there any way looking at

1290
00:58:16,870 --> 00:58:14,210
anecdotal information to determine what

1291
00:58:19,180 --> 00:58:16,880
it is that we're looking at definitively

1292
00:58:20,440 --> 00:58:19,190
and I think I think it's it's more of a

1293
00:58:23,559 --> 00:58:20,450
rhetorical question because I don't

1294
00:58:26,620 --> 00:58:23,569
think there is and you have pointed out

1295
00:58:28,270 --> 00:58:26,630
in your paper that that we need to start

1296
00:58:30,400 --> 00:58:28,280
rethinking and then looking at this

1297
00:58:33,339 --> 00:58:30,410
whole thing from a new and fresh

1298
00:58:35,020 --> 00:58:33,349
perspective why don't you give us dive

1299
00:58:36,849 --> 00:58:35,030
in a little bit more into your thinking

1300
00:58:45,450 --> 00:58:36,859
about how we're going to move forward

1301
00:58:47,819 --> 00:58:45,460
with this new ufology for example

1302
00:58:51,279 --> 00:58:47,829
talking about the difference between

1303
00:58:52,539 --> 00:58:51,289
Kirsten's and caulk and one of the

1304
00:58:55,269 --> 00:58:52,549
things that comes to my mind when you

1305
00:58:57,460 --> 00:58:55,279
said something that there's a plus for

1306
00:58:59,500 --> 00:58:57,470
instance the fact that why would America

1307
00:59:01,450 --> 00:58:59,510
massive hits on Newt one of the things

1308
00:59:04,150 --> 00:59:01,460
for caught is that most the phenomenon

1309
00:59:06,609 --> 00:59:04,160
is concentrated in the US which again

1310
00:59:08,890 --> 00:59:06,619
goes back to the to your question the

1311
00:59:12,039 --> 00:59:08,900
second it goes back to the cash in the

1312
00:59:15,579 --> 00:59:12,049
German Nazi scientists well now it's not

1313
00:59:19,000 --> 00:59:15,589
concentrated in the US but there's more

1314
00:59:21,970 --> 00:59:19,010
if you go on YouTube for me I see Marcus

1315
00:59:24,190 --> 00:59:21,980
is in a lot I know that US is being a

1316
00:59:27,039 --> 00:59:24,200
country than Britain but more than four

1317
00:59:29,650 --> 00:59:27,049
or five times as many cases simmer on

1318
00:59:32,140 --> 00:59:29,660
YouTube seem to be from America and from

1319
00:59:33,940 --> 00:59:32,150
the UK and obviously some example I

1320
00:59:36,069 --> 00:59:33,950
would give them coming from a video

1321
00:59:37,690 --> 00:59:36,079
camera self but there'll happens in

1322
00:59:40,809 --> 00:59:37,700
countries where we're not easily tuned

1323
00:59:42,969 --> 00:59:40,819
to face up in there - sure South America

1324
00:59:45,259 --> 00:59:42,979
has a lot of sightings

1325
00:59:48,410 --> 00:59:45,269
especially when Tina and Bolivia come

1326
00:59:50,269 --> 00:59:48,420
together I'm supposed to my experience

1327
00:59:54,069 --> 00:59:50,279
that seems to be a dystopic

1328
00:59:58,069 --> 00:59:54,079
slant towards the arrest officer Europe

1329
01:00:00,979 --> 00:59:58,079
I can't speak for places like China and

1330
01:00:04,719 --> 01:00:00,989
what have you offered personnel and so

1331
01:00:06,920 --> 01:00:04,729
on but to get to your question as well

1332
01:00:11,660 --> 01:00:06,930
can you just repeat our questions it's

1333
01:00:14,799 --> 01:00:11,670
just their profession memory well in

1334
01:00:17,719 --> 01:00:14,809
other words you can we use the same

1335
01:00:21,009 --> 01:00:17,729
methodology that we've been using in

1336
01:00:23,180 --> 01:00:21,019
effectively for 64 years to solve and

1337
01:00:23,769 --> 01:00:23,190
anecdotal cases I mean what do you

1338
01:00:29,479 --> 01:00:23,779
propose

1339
01:00:33,259 --> 01:00:29,489
to attempt to move this whole game

1340
01:00:35,539 --> 01:00:33,269
forward and it is a game and it does

1341
01:00:37,670 --> 01:00:35,549
need to be moved forward I've of course

1342
01:00:39,680 --> 01:00:37,680
I surely many of our listeners on the

1343
01:00:41,210 --> 01:00:39,690
pair cast so tired of hearing me sound

1344
01:00:43,690 --> 01:00:41,220
like a broken record saying the wheels

1345
01:00:46,729 --> 01:00:43,700
broke it's off the vehicle we need to

1346
01:00:49,160 --> 01:00:46,739
get creative and get outside the box and

1347
01:00:51,380 --> 01:00:49,170
come up with new approaches to the

1348
01:00:54,709 --> 01:00:51,390
subject matter it's a good question and

1349
01:00:56,690 --> 01:00:54,719
I think that I think that it's slow

1350
01:00:59,450 --> 01:00:56,700
progress that's my opinion

1351
01:01:00,849 --> 01:00:59,460
you can might disagree but I think that

1352
01:01:02,809 --> 01:01:00,859
has moved on since about the

1353
01:01:05,239 --> 01:01:02,819
declassified documents you know about

1354
01:01:07,370 --> 01:01:05,249
Leslie Kings book work and Orleans work

1355
01:01:09,950 --> 01:01:07,380
sure well we've had Richard Dolan and

1356
01:01:11,329 --> 01:01:09,960
Leslie Cain on her show so we're quite

1357
01:01:14,329 --> 01:01:11,339
aware of what they have but the only

1358
01:01:16,039 --> 01:01:14,339
question I always see here is yes we've

1359
01:01:17,989 --> 01:01:16,049
seen the book especially Leslie Cain's

1360
01:01:19,880 --> 01:01:17,999
book because it became the New York

1361
01:01:23,779 --> 01:01:19,890
Times bestseller she was on all the

1362
01:01:26,450 --> 01:01:23,789
major TV stations but the concern and

1363
01:01:28,069 --> 01:01:26,460
the interest seem to die down after a

1364
01:01:30,499 --> 01:01:28,079
while this is what always happens in the

1365
01:01:33,370 --> 01:01:30,509
UFO field over the years an occasional

1366
01:01:40,539 --> 01:01:33,380
book basically bubbles to the top and

1367
01:01:46,969 --> 01:01:45,349
little bit and very little I still see

1368
01:01:48,950 --> 01:01:46,979
the same issues being discussed today

1369
01:01:51,890 --> 01:01:48,960
major Donald Kehoe was talking about

1370
01:01:55,249 --> 01:01:51,900
disclosure in the book flying saucer

1371
01:01:55,790 --> 01:01:55,259
conspiracy in the mid 1950s I don't see

1372
01:01:57,650 --> 01:01:55,800
that what

1373
01:01:59,390 --> 01:01:57,660
he says in that book is all that much

1374
01:02:00,920 --> 01:01:59,400
different except he focused more on

1375
01:02:03,500 --> 01:02:00,930
military cases that's one thing about

1376
01:02:06,170 --> 01:02:03,510
Kehoe because of his background he was

1377
01:02:08,540 --> 01:02:06,180
focusing on cases that he got from his

1378
01:02:10,880 --> 01:02:08,550
military contacts today of course

1379
01:02:13,010 --> 01:02:10,890
there's no project Bluebook and most of

1380
01:02:14,750 --> 01:02:13,020
the cases we hear about our civilian

1381
01:02:17,660 --> 01:02:14,760
cases except occasionally maybe an

1382
01:02:19,730 --> 01:02:17,670
airliner base case now it's civilian

1383
01:02:22,790 --> 01:02:19,740
then it was military but again that was

1384
01:02:24,950 --> 01:02:22,800
in the orientation of the presenter and

1385
01:02:27,770 --> 01:02:24,960
the same was true of course with the

1386
01:02:29,570 --> 01:02:27,780
books from Edward J ruppelt there was

1387
01:02:31,190 --> 01:02:29,580
the original book and a slight update

1388
01:02:33,350 --> 01:02:31,200
with three more chapters that was very

1389
01:02:35,980 --> 01:02:33,360
controversial but that's more than we

1390
01:02:39,560 --> 01:02:35,990
want to get into we have paul budding

1391
01:02:42,230 --> 01:02:39,570
he's associated with an organization he

1392
01:02:45,740 --> 01:02:42,240
sent up about ufos called

1393
01:02:47,420 --> 01:02:45,750
the serious new ufology Institute I'm

1394
01:02:55,910 --> 01:02:47,430
Jean Steinberg the co-host is Chris

1395
01:02:57,920 --> 01:02:55,920
O'Brien you're in the para cast have you

1396
01:02:59,450 --> 01:02:57,930
been sitting on a few great domain name

1397
01:03:01,310 --> 01:02:59,460
ideas but haven't locked them in for

1398
01:03:02,630 --> 01:03:01,320
yourself good now you can buy them

1399
01:03:05,180 --> 01:03:02,640
through the number one domain name

1400
01:03:06,950 --> 01:03:05,190
registrar namecheap.com as voted by the

1401
01:03:09,230 --> 01:03:06,960
top tech blog Lifehacker just like the

1402
01:03:12,350 --> 01:03:09,240
name says you can buy domains cheap as

1403
01:03:14,360 --> 01:03:12,360
low as $2.99 and every new domain comes

1404
01:03:16,370 --> 01:03:14,370
with Whois guard our special privacy

1405
01:03:18,110 --> 01:03:16,380
service free for the first year now that

1406
01:03:19,460 --> 01:03:18,120
you know it's time to grab those domain

1407
01:03:21,020 --> 01:03:19,470
names before someone else does

1408
01:03:25,790 --> 01:03:21,030
namecheap.com

1409
01:03:27,320 --> 01:03:25,800
provides true reports of the strange and

1410
01:03:29,270 --> 01:03:27,330
unknown keep up with the latest on

1411
01:03:31,850 --> 01:03:29,280
angels and miracles psychic phenomena

1412
01:03:32,450 --> 01:03:31,860
ghosts UFOs life after death and much

1413
01:03:34,220 --> 01:03:32,460
much more

1414
01:03:36,470 --> 01:03:34,230
to receive your free issue of fate

1415
01:03:39,440 --> 01:03:36,480
magazine call noun at one eight hundred

1416
01:03:43,700 --> 01:03:39,450
seven two eight two seven three zero or

1417
01:03:46,250 --> 01:03:43,710
visit their website at wwlp.com that's

1418
01:03:48,020 --> 01:03:46,260
one eight hundred seven to eight twenty

1419
01:03:52,310 --> 01:03:48,030
seven thirty what are you waiting for

1420
01:03:54,200 --> 01:03:52,320
your fate awaits gold is it for you Ted

1421
01:03:56,000 --> 01:03:54,210
Anderson president of Midas resources

1422
01:03:58,160 --> 01:03:56,010
one of the world's premier gold and

1423
01:03:59,870 --> 01:03:58,170
precious metal investing firms I get it

1424
01:04:01,610 --> 01:03:59,880
you wouldn't buy gold if you believed

1425
01:04:03,620 --> 01:04:01,620
that the government is doing a great job

1426
01:04:05,600 --> 01:04:03,630
that the Fed will stop handing out

1427
01:04:07,589 --> 01:04:05,610
trillions of dollars like bail out candy

1428
01:04:09,539 --> 01:04:07,599
that Social Security would be there for

1429
01:04:11,489 --> 01:04:09,549
that's not what's happening you might

1430
01:04:14,099 --> 01:04:11,499
even pass on gold if the stimulus

1431
01:04:16,049 --> 01:04:14,109
package wouldn't fuel inflation or that

1432
01:04:17,999 --> 01:04:16,059
the dollar would lose value or that your

1433
01:04:19,979 --> 01:04:18,009
retirement would be secured if all

1434
01:04:22,079 --> 01:04:19,989
what's rosy to you then now is not the

1435
01:04:23,969 --> 01:04:22,089
time to buy gold for the realists there

1436
01:04:25,319 --> 01:04:23,979
have never been more sobering reasons to

1437
01:04:27,809 --> 01:04:25,329
diversify with gold

1438
01:04:30,509 --> 01:04:27,819
since 2001 the US Dollar Index has

1439
01:04:32,099 --> 01:04:30,519
tanked 30% while gold has risen three

1440
01:04:33,809 --> 01:04:32,109
hundred percent right now savvy

1441
01:04:36,180 --> 01:04:33,819
investors are adding gold to their

1442
01:04:38,039 --> 01:04:36,190
portfolios you should to find out what

1443
01:04:40,109 --> 01:04:38,049
they know call us and I'll send you 10

1444
01:04:42,150 --> 01:04:40,119
reasons why gold will do very well three

1445
01:04:44,459 --> 01:04:42,160
eight hundred six eight six two two

1446
01:04:46,709 --> 01:04:44,469
three seven eight hundred six eight six

1447
01:04:51,120 --> 01:04:46,719
two two three seven that's eight hundred

1448
01:04:53,039 --> 01:04:51,130
six eight six two two three seven local

1449
01:04:55,019 --> 01:04:53,049
army navy surplus stores are hard to

1450
01:04:57,509 --> 01:04:55,029
find these days but not military issue

1451
01:05:00,239 --> 01:04:57,519
supplies they're right here online at

1452
01:05:03,870 --> 01:05:00,249
main military comm that's right just

1453
01:05:05,999 --> 01:05:03,880
like the state ma I and II military comm

1454
01:05:08,519 --> 01:05:06,009
we have everything for true total

1455
01:05:10,859 --> 01:05:08,529
preparedness main military comm is not a

1456
01:05:13,709 --> 01:05:10,869
typical website it has much more than

1457
01:05:16,319 --> 01:05:13,719
your old surplus store quality military

1458
01:05:19,170 --> 01:05:16,329
issue survival gear like canteens mess

1459
01:05:20,819 --> 01:05:19,180
kits utensils gas masks filters and

1460
01:05:22,549 --> 01:05:20,829
chemical suits Knight museum

1461
01:05:25,289 --> 01:05:22,559
fire-starting tools strike-anywhere

1462
01:05:28,319 --> 01:05:25,299
waterproof and storm matches first aid

1463
01:05:30,930 --> 01:05:28,329
kits splints tourniquets parachute 550

1464
01:05:33,479 --> 01:05:30,940
cord military manuals sandbags by the

1465
01:05:36,569 --> 01:05:33,489
Bale and a huge Mali assortment of vests

1466
01:05:38,579 --> 01:05:36,579
and pouches for every need call 207 nine

1467
01:05:40,680 --> 01:05:38,589
eight nine six seven eight three two oh

1468
01:05:43,769 --> 01:05:40,690
seven nine eight nine six seven eight

1469
01:05:48,059 --> 01:05:43,779
three or visit main military comm that's

1470
01:05:50,939 --> 01:05:48,069
M AI n II military calm the main name in

1471
01:05:53,219 --> 01:05:50,949
military supply if you drive for a

1472
01:05:56,279 --> 01:05:53,229
living you don't get paid to stop or

1473
01:05:59,640 --> 01:05:56,289
wait in line keep your wheels move in

1474
01:06:02,219 --> 01:05:59,650
with pre pass bypass weigh stations fly

1475
01:06:04,289 --> 01:06:02,229
by port of entry facilities stay moving

1476
01:06:08,650 --> 01:06:04,299
at highway speed while the guy without

1477
01:06:15,920 --> 01:06:11,930
save time save money call eight eight

1478
01:06:19,970 --> 01:06:15,930
eight 401 pass to try free pass free

1479
01:06:23,299 --> 01:06:19,980
that's eight eight eight 401 pass what's

1480
01:06:25,130 --> 01:06:23,309
cooking at price kitchen calm plenty low

1481
01:06:27,470 --> 01:06:25,140
prices on your favorite kitchen brand

1482
01:06:30,140 --> 01:06:27,480
appliances Vitamix blenders Omega

1483
01:06:32,779 --> 01:06:30,150
juicers reverse osmosis systems and more

1484
01:06:35,029 --> 01:06:32,789
plus free shipping on it all price

1485
01:06:37,220 --> 01:06:35,039
kitchen comm gives your family the tools

1486
01:06:39,079 --> 01:06:37,230
for a healthy lifestyle by eating more

1487
01:06:42,349 --> 01:06:39,089
fruits and veggies and drinking pure

1488
01:06:45,289 --> 01:06:42,359
water go to prize kitchen calm great

1489
01:06:47,510 --> 01:06:45,299
selection low prices free shipping prize

1490
01:06:51,680 --> 01:06:47,520
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1491
01:06:53,839 --> 01:06:51,690
lifestyles convenient the gzn Radio

1492
01:06:58,549 --> 01:06:53,849
Network providing the world with

1493
01:07:06,329 --> 01:06:58,559
hard-hitting talk radio G C and great

1494
01:07:11,140 --> 01:07:09,250
we want to hear from you if you have a

1495
01:07:14,500 --> 01:07:11,150
comment or question about the para cast

1496
01:07:17,920 --> 01:07:14,510
sent it to news at the para cast com

1497
01:07:20,170 --> 01:07:17,930
that's news at the pear cast calm but if

1498
01:07:21,609 --> 01:07:20,180
you want to catch up on past episodes we

1499
01:07:24,789 --> 01:07:21,619
have hundreds of shows for you to

1500
01:07:28,779 --> 01:07:24,799
download direct from the para cast com

1501
01:07:32,400 --> 01:07:28,789
that's the para cast calm or check us

1502
01:07:37,089 --> 01:07:35,230
we're back with Paul budding and his

1503
01:07:39,940 --> 01:07:37,099
organizations called the serious new

1504
01:07:42,309 --> 01:07:39,950
ufology Institute you're talking with

1505
01:07:45,190 --> 01:07:42,319
Gina and Chris Paul just question your

1506
01:07:48,069 --> 01:07:45,200
Institute is this just you or do you

1507
01:07:51,370 --> 01:07:48,079
have an organization behind you my idea

1508
01:07:54,579 --> 01:07:51,380
there's someone called Nathan was not

1509
01:07:56,319 --> 01:07:54,589
he's Canadian and sees the technical

1510
01:08:00,010 --> 01:07:56,329
brilliance behind it setting up on that

1511
01:08:02,140 --> 01:08:00,020
online and will helping to progress

1512
01:08:04,660 --> 01:08:02,150
phone from that he's managed to get it

1513
01:08:07,170 --> 01:08:04,670
online and got a few peppers on there

1514
01:08:09,970 --> 01:08:07,180
and what you say it's very early stages

1515
01:08:12,460 --> 01:08:09,980
but we've made starts arts that's good

1516
01:08:13,960 --> 01:08:12,470
well we'll have to get a banner up so

1517
01:08:17,260 --> 01:08:13,970
people know exactly where to go to find

1518
01:08:18,939 --> 01:08:17,270
out more and read your papers I again

1519
01:08:22,079 --> 01:08:18,949
that's how I first became aware of you

1520
01:08:24,189 --> 01:08:22,089
as I think magic weed at the anomalous

1521
01:08:26,740 --> 01:08:24,199
proposed a little notice about your

1522
01:08:29,439 --> 01:08:26,750
paper and I immediately said hey gene we

1523
01:08:31,570 --> 01:08:29,449
got to get pollen on the show and kick

1524
01:08:34,990 --> 01:08:31,580
around some of these ideas and try to

1525
01:08:37,329 --> 01:08:35,000
move this whole morass forward down the

1526
01:08:39,070 --> 01:08:37,339
road a little bit a little bit like

1527
01:08:41,380 --> 01:08:39,080
saying the morass is just getting worse

1528
01:08:44,140 --> 01:08:41,390
we were talking before you came on Paul

1529
01:08:46,419 --> 01:08:44,150
about an incident which I'm not going to

1530
01:08:48,510 --> 01:08:46,429
repeat in great detail about a longtime

1531
01:08:50,740 --> 01:08:48,520
UFO investigator who had phony

1532
01:08:53,260 --> 01:08:50,750
educational and perhaps military

1533
01:08:55,120 --> 01:08:53,270
credentials and that's of course an

1534
01:08:57,880 --> 01:08:55,130
issue that has always confronted us in

1535
01:09:00,309 --> 01:08:57,890
this field so many people come around

1536
01:09:01,930 --> 01:09:00,319
and maybe it's a small percentage of the

1537
01:09:04,269 --> 01:09:01,940
whole but we just hear about them more

1538
01:09:07,510 --> 01:09:04,279
they come around they make fake claims

1539
01:09:10,090 --> 01:09:07,520
they have fake credentials so how in

1540
01:09:17,110 --> 01:09:10,100
your opinion Paul do we deal with their

1541
01:09:19,790 --> 01:09:17,120
fronts spank them excuse me

1542
01:09:23,300 --> 01:09:19,800
with people who are claiming to be

1543
01:09:27,140 --> 01:09:23,310
researches time - Octavio same things

1544
01:09:29,450 --> 01:09:27,150
more claiming to be a doctor claiming to

1545
01:09:32,150 --> 01:09:29,460
have certain educational credentials

1546
01:09:35,840 --> 01:09:32,160
people like that and you check it out

1547
01:09:37,300 --> 01:09:35,850
and you find out they didn't yeah how

1548
01:09:40,310 --> 01:09:37,310
can you take any of their work seriously

1549
01:09:41,570 --> 01:09:40,320
well yeah exactly you can all you can do

1550
01:09:45,830 --> 01:09:41,580
with that is ignorant

1551
01:09:49,160 --> 01:09:45,840
hope they go away okay have the web

1552
01:09:51,290 --> 01:09:49,170
presence Paul do you hope to put

1553
01:09:53,660 --> 01:09:51,300
together a group of investigators to go

1554
01:09:56,300 --> 01:09:53,670
through the information we have and try

1555
01:10:00,830 --> 01:09:56,310
to present findings and such where is

1556
01:10:03,160 --> 01:10:00,840
your endgame here it's just the people

1557
01:10:06,530 --> 01:10:03,170
can come on and as long as they're

1558
01:10:08,360 --> 01:10:06,540
roughly I mean just really think that

1559
01:10:10,940 --> 01:10:08,370
I've got a point about needing to move

1560
01:10:12,020 --> 01:10:10,950
it past accumulating cases and as long

1561
01:10:13,460 --> 01:10:12,030
as they've got something to said

1562
01:10:16,010 --> 01:10:13,470
something that might be a contribute

1563
01:10:18,250 --> 01:10:16,020
then I think it's worthwhile listening

1564
01:10:20,660 --> 01:10:18,260
to anyone basically as long as they can

1565
01:10:22,370 --> 01:10:20,670
assess they could write a paper that

1566
01:10:24,050 --> 01:10:22,380
would be ideal I mean just you can't

1567
01:10:25,850 --> 01:10:24,060
can't tell people or come up with the

1568
01:10:28,190 --> 01:10:25,860
exact answer because that's too

1569
01:10:31,010 --> 01:10:28,200
unrealistic well is that also the other

1570
01:10:32,900 --> 01:10:31,020
issue here maybe it is that we have to

1571
01:10:34,700 --> 01:10:32,910
find ways to take what's there that we

1572
01:10:37,880 --> 01:10:34,710
have the evidence it's all out there and

1573
01:10:39,800 --> 01:10:37,890
it's not just Roswell New Mexico in 1947

1574
01:10:42,500 --> 01:10:39,810
or something there is enough information

1575
01:10:45,200 --> 01:10:42,510
out there today that if there were no

1576
01:10:48,320 --> 01:10:45,210
more UFO sightings we'd still be able to

1577
01:10:50,660 --> 01:10:48,330
do investigations sometimes wonder what

1578
01:10:52,190 --> 01:10:50,670
and people are wanting out I think some

1579
01:10:56,180 --> 01:10:52,200
people it's clear that what disclosure

1580
01:10:57,320 --> 01:10:56,190
from the American president but I think

1581
01:10:59,570 --> 01:10:57,330
there's some people know these things

1582
01:11:01,820 --> 01:10:59,580
that that's not necessary that kind of

1583
01:11:04,910 --> 01:11:01,830
put yourself together themselves now I

1584
01:11:07,790 --> 01:11:04,920
got so far argument but I stopped short

1585
01:11:10,760 --> 01:11:07,800
of saying there are et there are time

1586
01:11:14,090 --> 01:11:10,770
travelers there in a dimensional come

1587
01:11:15,590 --> 01:11:14,100
from some secret government but I think

1588
01:11:17,540 --> 01:11:15,600
that's so far they're far cuz I'm

1589
01:11:19,910 --> 01:11:17,550
staffing that they own intelligently

1590
01:11:22,340 --> 01:11:19,920
controlled craft they'll say anything

1591
01:11:23,890 --> 01:11:22,350
about the beans or anything like that or

1592
01:11:26,720 --> 01:11:23,900
if it's an artificial intelligence

1593
01:11:28,670 --> 01:11:26,730
somebody I know who believes that theory

1594
01:11:29,040 --> 01:11:28,680
to a certain extent

1595
01:11:32,400 --> 01:11:29,050
always

1596
01:11:33,870 --> 01:11:32,410
certain passing anomalies within

1597
01:11:36,630 --> 01:11:33,880
anomalies and I think there's some of

1598
01:11:40,500 --> 01:11:36,640
the anomalies are the best cases and the

1599
01:11:43,920 --> 01:11:40,510
Congress lights is a very very good one

1600
01:11:46,800 --> 01:11:43,930
I cannot explain that and actually Nick

1601
01:11:50,250 --> 01:11:46,810
cook who have been saying goes on about

1602
01:11:52,830 --> 01:11:50,260
the human explanation largely in

1603
01:11:55,860 --> 01:11:52,840
American explanation I think he even he

1604
01:11:59,220 --> 01:11:55,870
when he's the Channel five documentary

1605
01:12:01,440 --> 01:11:59,230
on British television at the end of it

1606
01:12:03,660 --> 01:12:01,450
he currently purposely contradicted

1607
01:12:05,670 --> 01:12:03,670
himself showed the footage for the

1608
01:12:07,620 --> 01:12:05,680
former Congress writers and said I must

1609
01:12:10,620 --> 01:12:07,630
admit I can I explain this within my

1610
01:12:13,200 --> 01:12:10,630
Phoebe so even he when he at least the

1611
01:12:15,630 --> 01:12:13,210
time he made that program could see

1612
01:12:19,010 --> 01:12:15,640
something that contacted his own theory

1613
01:12:21,690 --> 01:12:19,020
and was unexplainable so maybe they are

1614
01:12:23,820 --> 01:12:21,700
collective manifestations of Mon Dali

1615
01:12:28,740 --> 01:12:23,830
images flitting around just to play with

1616
01:12:30,540 --> 01:12:28,750
our heads was right I still want to move

1617
01:12:33,060 --> 01:12:30,550
this ball down the field I mean what's

1618
01:12:35,550 --> 01:12:33,070
the best way to do that uh you know I've

1619
01:12:38,280 --> 01:12:35,560
been champion out-of-the-box thinking

1620
01:12:40,290 --> 01:12:38,290
ever since I became involved in this

1621
01:12:44,520 --> 01:12:40,300
field almost twenty years ago now and

1622
01:12:45,960 --> 01:12:44,530
it's really difficult I think I should

1623
01:12:49,230 --> 01:12:45,970
kind of stress this point it's very

1624
01:12:53,400 --> 01:12:49,240
difficult in a field that has no no real

1625
01:12:57,030 --> 01:12:53,410
credentialing process to sometimes

1626
01:12:59,250 --> 01:12:57,040
wade through a lot of the the noise and

1627
01:13:02,820 --> 01:12:59,260
try to identify that signal within the

1628
01:13:05,220 --> 01:13:02,830
noise especially now with digital you

1629
01:13:06,900 --> 01:13:05,230
know Photoshop and in other After

1630
01:13:09,450 --> 01:13:06,910
Effects and other digital imaging

1631
01:13:12,420 --> 01:13:09,460
programs we're getting more and more

1632
01:13:15,300 --> 01:13:12,430
hoaxes more people are willing to spend

1633
01:13:18,330 --> 01:13:15,310
time to try to fool everyone else into

1634
01:13:21,120 --> 01:13:18,340
believing that their little art project

1635
01:13:23,940 --> 01:13:21,130
is reality and do you think that we

1636
01:13:25,980 --> 01:13:23,950
should try to organize ourselves somehow

1637
01:13:28,080 --> 01:13:25,990
I think Leslie Kean brought this up in

1638
01:13:31,680 --> 01:13:28,090
her book about some sort of organization

1639
01:13:34,320 --> 01:13:31,690
that would be tasked with investigating

1640
01:13:35,700 --> 01:13:34,330
the better cases and and trying to weed

1641
01:13:39,660 --> 01:13:35,710
out the you know

1642
01:13:41,580 --> 01:13:39,670
the signal from loud noise I mean what

1643
01:13:43,380 --> 01:13:41,590
sort of approach I mean you know you

1644
01:13:45,240 --> 01:13:43,390
know sort of a tangible realistic way I

1645
01:13:46,650 --> 01:13:45,250
mean what sort of approach would you

1646
01:13:51,540 --> 01:13:46,660
envision let's say you had an unlimited

1647
01:13:54,420 --> 01:13:51,550
budget and they said Paul how would you

1648
01:13:57,240 --> 01:13:54,430
spend X amount of dollars to accomplish

1649
01:14:00,470 --> 01:13:57,250
your goal of trying to ascertain what we

1650
01:14:05,340 --> 01:14:00,480
are dealing with what would you do I

1651
01:14:08,280 --> 01:14:05,350
think the top scientists are interested

1652
01:14:12,800 --> 01:14:08,290
because that would help because people

1653
01:14:17,250 --> 01:14:12,810
naturally project onto them sort of

1654
01:14:22,410 --> 01:14:17,260
professionalism Authority knowledge I

1655
01:14:24,630 --> 01:14:22,420
mean we and people accept gravity what

1656
01:14:26,220 --> 01:14:24,640
have you not just because it's real it's

1657
01:14:28,229 --> 01:14:26,230
because people have said so it's

1658
01:14:29,940 --> 01:14:28,239
nuisance a lot anything I think it just

1659
01:14:32,310 --> 01:14:29,950
feeds down eventually I think the more

1660
01:14:33,750 --> 01:14:32,320
people like that top scientists who say

1661
01:14:37,229 --> 01:14:33,760
things that's why I mentioned tactical

1662
01:14:39,150 --> 01:14:37,239
before and there are people will fear it

1663
01:14:42,240 --> 01:14:39,160
so it's agreeable it's familiar is

1664
01:14:43,979 --> 01:14:42,250
consensual but you've UFO phenomena as

1665
01:14:46,800 --> 01:14:43,989
it's always been as it is now is nothing

1666
01:14:49,320 --> 01:14:46,810
like that and that's a big problem so I

1667
01:14:51,750 --> 01:14:49,330
think that'd be my answer that question

1668
01:14:56,010 --> 01:14:51,760
though what you cannot fast these people

1669
01:14:58,770 --> 01:14:56,020
to give off their my well-paid careers

1670
01:15:00,600 --> 01:14:58,780
to look into top if it they don't want

1671
01:15:03,120 --> 01:15:00,610
to just know I think that's a difficult

1672
01:15:05,580 --> 01:15:03,130
one autochrome so you thought you're

1673
01:15:07,830 --> 01:15:05,590
talking about getting legitimate science

1674
01:15:09,330 --> 01:15:07,840
involved directly well if we can't get

1675
01:15:11,459 --> 01:15:09,340
the top dogs maybe we can get their

1676
01:15:14,850 --> 01:15:11,469
research assistants or their graduate

1677
01:15:17,100 --> 01:15:14,860
students or something interests the

1678
01:15:20,430 --> 01:15:17,110
research assistants are the ones who do

1679
01:15:26,970 --> 01:15:20,440
really all the work yeah that's probably

1680
01:15:31,550 --> 01:15:26,980
true what would help for the masses to

1681
01:15:35,520 --> 01:15:31,560
be convinced so I'm not saying that

1682
01:15:37,470 --> 01:15:35,530
other people can't do a good job but

1683
01:15:40,500 --> 01:15:37,480
nevertheless they might find it harder

1684
01:15:42,570 --> 01:15:40,510
not impossible to convince I'll tell you

1685
01:15:45,180 --> 01:15:42,580
what we have to convince our benefactors

1686
01:15:47,070 --> 01:15:45,190
of a few things so we're talking to Paul

1687
01:15:48,540 --> 01:15:47,080
budding I'm Jean Steinberg the co-host

1688
01:15:57,360 --> 01:15:48,550
is Chris O'Brien your

1689
01:15:59,100 --> 01:15:57,370
de perak as Ray Perkins a reclusive

1690
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veteran burned out from the Gulf War

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lives tortured by relentless perplexing

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nightmares nightmares of a horrific

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battle in deep space and of a mysterious

1694
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woman suffering and agony for her

1695
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devastated world a woman not yet born

1696
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calling across centuries to him then a

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coincidence leads him to his destiny his

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chance to alter the universe attack of

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the rocket the former fiction editor for

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Star Wars and Indiana Jones Robert

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Simpson writes the soul of the novel

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attack of the Rockaways lies in its

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stockbrokers investment advisors won't

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[Music]

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01:19:54,910 --> 01:19:52,330
America's number one source for

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01:19:56,040 --> 01:19:54,920
independent talk retails for over a

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01:20:02,890 --> 01:19:56,050
decade

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01:20:06,520 --> 01:20:02,900
we are the gcn radio network there's Jim

1783
01:20:08,919 --> 01:20:06,530
Mosely or a sausage smear and I'm here

1784
01:20:11,620 --> 01:20:08,929
to say a good word or two about the para

1785
01:20:14,859 --> 01:20:11,630
cast and which I believe is the gold

1786
01:20:22,419 --> 01:20:14,869
standard the paranormal radio listen to

1787
01:20:26,169 --> 01:20:22,429
it if you can we're back with Paul

1788
01:20:28,090 --> 01:20:26,179
budding UFO investigator looking at the

1789
01:20:30,250 --> 01:20:28,100
new ufology trying to get things

1790
01:20:33,399 --> 01:20:30,260
together with Gene and Chris on the

1791
01:20:35,709 --> 01:20:33,409
power cast this week Chris maybe we

1792
01:20:38,439 --> 01:20:35,719
could segue into some of the questions

1793
01:20:40,689 --> 01:20:38,449
we have from our audience in the power

1794
01:20:42,760 --> 01:20:40,699
bills forms I think we had a lot of

1795
01:20:45,790 --> 01:20:42,770
people scratching their heads because we

1796
01:20:48,910 --> 01:20:45,800
only got really one question which is

1797
01:20:52,740 --> 01:20:48,920
highly unusual for the show I think I

1798
01:20:56,830 --> 01:20:52,750
think the whole idea of someone who's a

1799
01:20:59,609 --> 01:20:56,840
student of human psychology might have

1800
01:21:02,859 --> 01:20:59,619
been a little daunting for some of our

1801
01:21:05,080 --> 01:21:02,869
forum posters we do have quite an

1802
01:21:08,560 --> 01:21:05,090
extensive forum at that forum dr. Peric

1803
01:21:10,870 --> 01:21:08,570
ascom with thousands and thousands of

1804
01:21:13,000 --> 01:21:10,880
participants here's what we do when we

1805
01:21:16,209 --> 01:21:13,010
know you have a guest scheduled what we

1806
01:21:18,430 --> 01:21:16,219
try to do is put something in our forums

1807
01:21:21,520 --> 01:21:18,440
in a folder or thread called the

1808
01:21:24,700 --> 01:21:21,530
question Bank so if you go to forum . ^

1809
01:21:27,700 --> 01:21:24,710
cast com forum dot the power cast com

1810
01:21:30,720 --> 01:21:27,710
you sign up it costs nothing to sign up

1811
01:21:33,720 --> 01:21:30,730
you just have to agree to be a mensch

1812
01:21:36,010 --> 01:21:33,730
it's free you don't get bombarded by

1813
01:21:38,320 --> 01:21:36,020
emails I think the worst we do is we

1814
01:21:40,510 --> 01:21:38,330
send out a reminder every 45 to 60 days

1815
01:21:42,040 --> 01:21:40,520
saying gee I haven't posted anything

1816
01:21:43,780 --> 01:21:42,050
wouldn't you like to do that that's

1817
01:21:46,030 --> 01:21:43,790
about as bad as we get about it as

1818
01:21:48,729 --> 01:21:46,040
obnoxious as we get so we set these

1819
01:21:50,740 --> 01:21:48,739
threads where you can post questions to

1820
01:21:52,899 --> 01:21:50,750
forthcoming guess now some of they asked

1821
01:21:55,209 --> 01:21:52,909
why don't we do this on the telephone

1822
01:21:57,070 --> 01:21:55,219
which we're capable of doing and I think

1823
01:21:59,620 --> 01:21:57,080
the problem with that is it restricts us

1824
01:22:01,509 --> 01:21:59,630
in scheduling because then we'd have to

1825
01:22:02,859 --> 01:22:01,519
do the show live

1826
01:22:05,319 --> 01:22:02,869
and the gas would have to be here at

1827
01:22:06,939 --> 01:22:05,329
that particular point in time which may

1828
01:22:09,220 --> 01:22:06,949
work for a Daily Show but not

1829
01:22:11,830 --> 01:22:09,230
necessarily for a weekly show so we have

1830
01:22:13,629 --> 01:22:11,840
the flexibility this way and also you

1831
01:22:15,939 --> 01:22:13,639
know when you take phone calls it's

1832
01:22:17,680 --> 01:22:15,949
harder than to scream the calls you get

1833
01:22:18,819 --> 01:22:17,690
occasionally a few wackos again it's

1834
01:22:20,319 --> 01:22:18,829
good for a Daily Show

1835
01:22:23,319 --> 01:22:20,329
I don't think so much as a weekly show

1836
01:22:26,290 --> 01:22:23,329
Chris you have that stuff I do okay this

1837
01:22:28,810 --> 01:22:26,300
comes from boomerang who's a fairly new

1838
01:22:31,089 --> 01:22:28,820
member of the forum he joined here in

1839
01:22:32,649 --> 01:22:31,099
January and he has two questions one of

1840
01:22:34,479 --> 01:22:32,659
which I think we've kind of addressed a

1841
01:22:37,750 --> 01:22:34,489
little bit but I'll go ahead and ask it

1842
01:22:39,970 --> 01:22:37,760
as the first question what's the

1843
01:22:43,359 --> 01:22:39,980
difference between Carl Jung's concept

1844
01:22:45,729 --> 01:22:43,369
of UFOs as psychic projections versus

1845
01:22:54,790 --> 01:22:45,739
common hallucinations it's a bit of a

1846
01:22:58,239 --> 01:22:54,800
softball question but I'll ask it you

1847
01:23:01,239 --> 01:22:58,249
see the UFO in the sky so is it is that

1848
01:23:03,430 --> 01:23:01,249
an unidentified flying object but then

1849
01:23:06,700 --> 01:23:03,440
you project onto it what you think it is

1850
01:23:09,160 --> 01:23:06,710
also you projecting emotion attached to

1851
01:23:12,970 --> 01:23:09,170
it so that you'll so it fixes in your

1852
01:23:15,759 --> 01:23:12,980
head I really like the image so you said

1853
01:23:18,069 --> 01:23:15,769
you think you projects fascination and

1854
01:23:20,319 --> 01:23:18,079
I'll onto it mystery you did see

1855
01:23:22,810 --> 01:23:20,329
something when it's with an illumination

1856
01:23:25,600 --> 01:23:22,820
you didn't really see it so that's the

1857
01:23:27,729 --> 01:23:25,610
outset of that okay so let me try to

1858
01:23:31,779 --> 01:23:27,739
help define this a bit better Paul

1859
01:23:33,850 --> 01:23:31,789
alright so if you see something that's

1860
01:23:35,770 --> 01:23:33,860
the projection is your mind coloring

1861
01:23:37,899 --> 01:23:35,780
that image so you're not seeing what's

1862
01:23:39,930 --> 01:23:37,909
there you're seeing what you expect to

1863
01:23:42,279 --> 01:23:39,940
be there what you believe will be there

1864
01:23:45,850 --> 01:23:42,289
it's what you want to be there and WASC

1865
01:23:49,419 --> 01:23:45,860
and also this a cultural factor so that

1866
01:23:51,430 --> 01:23:49,429
I'll fix it dolls sitting with us now I

1867
01:23:54,370 --> 01:23:51,440
think when I hear this about the movie

1868
01:23:58,689 --> 01:23:54,380
contact with Jodie Foster plays this

1869
01:24:01,569 --> 01:23:58,699
astronomer who meets ET towards the end

1870
01:24:04,270 --> 01:24:01,579
of the film but ET comes in the form of

1871
01:24:06,549 --> 01:24:04,280
her late father and ET says well you

1872
01:24:08,379 --> 01:24:06,559
wouldn't be able to accept what we

1873
01:24:11,080 --> 01:24:08,389
really look like so we're coming here

1874
01:24:12,969 --> 01:24:11,090
and we are presenting our selves in a

1875
01:24:14,919 --> 01:24:12,979
way that you understand so the question

1876
01:24:17,049 --> 01:24:14,929
would be then do we

1877
01:24:20,140 --> 01:24:17,059
imagine UFOs to be something other than

1878
01:24:22,719 --> 01:24:20,150
they are or do they assuming there is a

1879
01:24:25,449 --> 01:24:22,729
they make themselves to be something

1880
01:24:27,850 --> 01:24:25,459
other than they are the sort of

1881
01:24:30,370 --> 01:24:27,860
psychology that are looking to cause

1882
01:24:32,500 --> 01:24:30,380
beyond the projection side of it if

1883
01:24:36,129 --> 01:24:32,510
they're changing themselves into

1884
01:24:38,469 --> 01:24:36,139
something that they are not are that

1885
01:24:41,379 --> 01:24:38,479
they kind of change themselves into not

1886
01:24:44,290 --> 01:24:41,389
like really paranormal and come for our

1887
01:24:46,629 --> 01:24:44,300
perspective in early 21st century

1888
01:24:50,140 --> 01:24:46,639
Western world that would be something

1889
01:24:53,109 --> 01:24:50,150
for the science fiction fans think to

1890
01:24:54,520 --> 01:24:53,119
walk into which although I'm not

1891
01:24:57,219 --> 01:24:54,530
slagging that off because science

1892
01:24:58,750 --> 01:24:57,229
fiction often become science fact well

1893
01:25:00,100 --> 01:24:58,760
every time you look at the Star Trek

1894
01:25:03,939 --> 01:25:00,110
communicator and you think of the

1895
01:25:07,060 --> 01:25:03,949
clamshell cellphone little handheld

1896
01:25:10,089 --> 01:25:07,070
device in Star Trek next generation in

1897
01:25:11,739 --> 01:25:10,099
the 1980s and the iPad right yeah

1898
01:25:13,149 --> 01:25:11,749
science fiction science facts got a

1899
01:25:16,239 --> 01:25:13,159
friend who's very interested in the

1900
01:25:19,000 --> 01:25:16,249
singularity very interested no files

1901
01:25:21,629 --> 01:25:19,010
single imma teach you but to go back to

1902
01:25:25,149 --> 01:25:21,639
the point you're saying before about

1903
01:25:27,910 --> 01:25:25,159
what we should do to get to get ufology

1904
01:25:29,350 --> 01:25:27,920
moving to get advanced in and I

1905
01:25:30,729 --> 01:25:29,360
mentioned about scientists one of the

1906
01:25:33,339 --> 01:25:30,739
things that scientists really would like

1907
01:25:35,649 --> 01:25:33,349
to see I think those who would be

1908
01:25:37,750 --> 01:25:35,659
willing to take a interest in it is the

1909
01:25:39,759 --> 01:25:37,760
more as an agnostic position on what

1910
01:25:41,560 --> 01:25:39,769
actually it is I think when there see I

1911
01:25:43,839 --> 01:25:41,570
think their view of the field has all

1912
01:25:46,629 --> 01:25:43,849
been already made the mind up about the

1913
01:25:50,549 --> 01:25:46,639
ET hypothesis well I think that what's

1914
01:25:54,569 --> 01:25:50,559
awesome off I'd like to know agree

1915
01:25:56,830 --> 01:25:54,579
absolutely agree in plus it's the

1916
01:25:59,709 --> 01:25:56,840
replication of data it's a repeatability

1917
01:26:02,739 --> 01:25:59,719
factor too if you can't repeat something

1918
01:26:04,540 --> 01:26:02,749
and show that your hypothesis is correct

1919
01:26:06,939 --> 01:26:04,550
and then have other people be able to do

1920
01:26:09,850 --> 01:26:06,949
it scientists tend to get bored real

1921
01:26:12,459 --> 01:26:09,860
fast and they don't they don't tend to

1922
01:26:15,399 --> 01:26:12,469
pay attention like maybe they should I

1923
01:26:16,750 --> 01:26:15,409
think I think by getting scientists

1924
01:26:18,189 --> 01:26:16,760
involved I think one of the things that

1925
01:26:20,679 --> 01:26:18,199
that you're hinting at here but you

1926
01:26:22,600 --> 01:26:20,689
didn't really say overtly is that is

1927
01:26:25,950 --> 01:26:22,610
that there is a certain amount of

1928
01:26:27,360 --> 01:26:25,960
credibility that does go along with

1929
01:26:28,860 --> 01:26:27,370
with world-class scientists getting

1930
01:26:32,910 --> 01:26:28,870
involved in any field of endeavor

1931
01:26:35,910 --> 01:26:32,920
definitely it it brings a kind of a

1932
01:26:37,530 --> 01:26:35,920
sense of gravitas to the subject that it

1933
01:26:40,050 --> 01:26:37,540
might not have if they weren't involved

1934
01:26:42,209 --> 01:26:40,060
so I think one of the things that that

1935
01:26:43,110 --> 01:26:42,219
you know has really been a major

1936
01:26:46,440 --> 01:26:43,120
stumbling block cause you've just

1937
01:26:47,880 --> 01:26:46,450
brought up is this reliance on the ETH

1938
01:26:49,950 --> 01:26:47,890
and that goes back to one of my early

1939
01:26:53,190 --> 01:26:49,960
questions about the role of the media I

1940
01:26:54,900 --> 01:26:53,200
think the media has been involved in

1941
01:26:58,770 --> 01:26:54,910
really perpetuating this

1942
01:27:01,440 --> 01:26:58,780
one-size-fits-all theory and you know it

1943
01:27:04,580 --> 01:27:01,450
just it makes me not want to watch these

1944
01:27:08,070 --> 01:27:04,590
shows because it gets pretty old and

1945
01:27:10,110 --> 01:27:08,080
seeing this trotted out time and time

1946
01:27:13,229 --> 01:27:10,120
again of course as many of the listeners

1947
01:27:15,479 --> 01:27:13,239
know I'm more of a you know a person

1948
01:27:18,709 --> 01:27:15,489
that's more into the outside of the box

1949
01:27:20,640 --> 01:27:18,719
thinkers like John keel Jacques fillet

1950
01:27:24,090 --> 01:27:20,650
into a lesser degree

1951
01:27:27,030 --> 01:27:24,100
people like Paul Deborah oh who wants to

1952
01:27:29,490 --> 01:27:27,040
factor in the whole idea of maybe some

1953
01:27:33,600 --> 01:27:29,500
sort of undefined natural phenomena

1954
01:27:35,729 --> 01:27:33,610
maybe maybe well Trevor James Constable

1955
01:27:36,690 --> 01:27:35,739
and his idea of sky critters that maybe

1956
01:27:38,760 --> 01:27:36,700
we're dealing with some sort of

1957
01:27:42,420 --> 01:27:38,770
life-form that can manifest in a variety

1958
01:27:46,380 --> 01:27:42,430
of ways these are potential explanations

1959
01:27:49,050 --> 01:27:46,390
I feel deserve at least some sort of

1960
01:27:50,670 --> 01:27:49,060
looking at and and I think that there's

1961
01:27:52,290 --> 01:27:50,680
there's a lot of creative ways to

1962
01:27:55,260 --> 01:27:52,300
approach this whole subject that really

1963
01:27:58,160 --> 01:27:55,270
are not getting their due in the media

1964
01:28:00,950 --> 01:27:58,170
and I think the media is too involved in

1965
01:28:03,030 --> 01:28:00,960
entertaining people and sort of

1966
01:28:05,360 --> 01:28:03,040
spoon-feeding them what they think they

1967
01:28:09,270 --> 01:28:05,370
want to hear and I think that that's

1968
01:28:12,000 --> 01:28:09,280
self-defeating it gets into a feedback

1969
01:28:14,640 --> 01:28:12,010
lead that does not move the field

1970
01:28:18,800 --> 01:28:14,650
forward and I think 64 years have proven

1971
01:28:21,000 --> 01:28:18,810
that and you know it's unfortunate but

1972
01:28:22,590 --> 01:28:21,010
people like yourself who are attempting

1973
01:28:24,630 --> 01:28:22,600
to look at this and you in different

1974
01:28:26,780 --> 01:28:24,640
ways I think this is a really good

1975
01:28:31,250 --> 01:28:26,790
indication to me that there is hope

1976
01:28:34,890 --> 01:28:31,260
you're not an old fogey like gene and me

1977
01:28:35,190 --> 01:28:34,900
Chris I am as old as the hills and I was

1978
01:28:37,770 --> 01:28:35,200
here

1979
01:28:39,810 --> 01:28:37,780
for the hills before they were lost but

1980
01:28:42,650 --> 01:28:39,820
the song is not over I'd be surprised if

1981
01:28:49,530 --> 01:28:42,660
you were over 40 we're both over 50

1982
01:28:51,630 --> 01:28:49,540
still read in the next 37 good young

1983
01:28:54,180 --> 01:28:51,640
young blood in and young bucks in the

1984
01:28:56,100 --> 01:28:54,190
field here you know pushing us old

1985
01:28:57,870 --> 01:28:56,110
fogies to start thinking a little bit

1986
01:29:03,090 --> 01:28:57,880
more creatively now outside of the box

1987
01:29:06,840 --> 01:29:03,100
you're thinking that 50 points one how

1988
01:29:12,330 --> 01:29:06,850
much everything yeah oh boy don't go

1989
01:29:15,000 --> 01:29:12,340
there small psychology side on the song

1990
01:29:16,710 --> 01:29:15,010
in clips of scientists you know I know

1991
01:29:19,340 --> 01:29:16,720
welcome experimental and yes back in

1992
01:29:22,590 --> 01:29:19,350
America that shows how much program

1993
01:29:28,650 --> 01:29:22,600
what's the words respect scientists

1994
01:29:29,940 --> 01:29:28,660
views that's the old times scientists

1995
01:29:32,700 --> 01:29:29,950
can get a little outside of themselves

1996
01:29:34,530 --> 01:29:32,710
or there they're only human but more

1997
01:29:36,870 --> 01:29:34,540
about the human scientists or maybe the

1998
01:29:38,430 --> 01:29:36,880
non-human scientists that are coming

1999
01:29:40,590 --> 01:29:38,440
here if there are such things and lots

2000
01:29:42,510 --> 01:29:40,600
of more Paul budding is our guest I'm

2001
01:29:52,190 --> 01:29:42,520
Jean Steinberg the co-host is Chris

2002
01:29:57,350 --> 01:29:55,150
[Music]

2003
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2109
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Berkey dot-com today are you tired of

2110
01:33:56,599 --> 01:33:54,780
searching for great talk radio more

2111
01:34:02,959 --> 01:33:56,609
important to search through no

2112
01:34:05,509 --> 01:34:02,969
we are the gcn radio network hello this

2113
01:34:08,029 --> 01:34:05,519
is John burrows one of the witnesses to

2114
01:34:10,129 --> 01:34:08,039
the Rendlesham UFO incident you're

2115
01:34:18,410 --> 01:34:10,139
listening to the podcast the gold

2116
01:34:24,320 --> 01:34:21,350
we're back with Paul budding we're

2117
01:34:25,790 --> 01:34:24,330
exploring the new ufology myth or not

2118
01:34:28,010 --> 01:34:25,800
we'll have to see

2119
01:34:31,520 --> 01:34:28,020
Chris O'Brien's the co-host I'm gene

2120
01:34:34,580 --> 01:34:31,530
Steinberg that question we started long

2121
01:34:37,760 --> 01:34:34,590
long ago in a galaxy far far away or a

2122
01:34:39,860 --> 01:34:37,770
dimensional reality from boomerang was

2123
01:34:42,650 --> 01:34:39,870
there more to it than that there was

2124
01:34:44,920 --> 01:34:42,660
there was a second part which is pretty

2125
01:34:48,620 --> 01:34:44,930
interesting uh this is this shows

2126
01:34:50,720 --> 01:34:48,630
creative thinking is it true that you

2127
01:34:54,160 --> 01:34:50,730
came to believe that instead of us

2128
01:35:01,840 --> 01:34:54,170
imagining the consciousness behind UFOs

2129
01:35:07,910 --> 01:35:04,010
strange of fractions towards the end

2130
01:35:14,960 --> 01:35:07,920
yeah well it's just a question from one

2131
01:35:18,050 --> 01:35:14,970
of our forum that he says a lot yeah

2132
01:35:21,380 --> 01:35:18,060
that's where the UFOs in their reality

2133
01:35:23,060 --> 01:35:21,390
in other words listener is hit vanillin

2134
01:35:24,650 --> 01:35:23,070
had in a sense that he's right that

2135
01:35:28,820 --> 01:35:24,660
young exciting memories dreams

2136
01:35:32,210 --> 01:35:28,830
reflections they saw a biography like

2137
01:35:33,700 --> 01:35:32,220
that young law just if he wants the

2138
01:35:38,270 --> 01:35:33,710
answer I think he would want that here

2139
01:35:41,030 --> 01:35:38,280
he would say that his work that he wants

2140
01:35:44,560 --> 01:35:41,040
people reduce his collected works he was

2141
01:35:46,750 --> 01:35:44,570
very strict about that for some reason

2142
01:35:52,880 --> 01:35:46,760
memories dreams reflections was like

2143
01:35:54,590 --> 01:35:52,890
more populist I suppose he was there you

2144
01:35:56,840 --> 01:35:54,600
might argue he might say well if he

2145
01:35:59,150 --> 01:35:56,850
doesn't think it well I said but

2146
01:36:01,400 --> 01:35:59,160
nevertheless his collective works that

2147
01:36:03,320 --> 01:36:01,410
he always says he wants to be remembered

2148
01:36:05,930 --> 01:36:03,330
by I mean in memories dreams reflections

2149
01:36:09,890 --> 01:36:05,940
he just got a tally really cause a lot

2150
01:36:13,310 --> 01:36:09,900
at his most talent Armel experiences his

2151
01:36:15,230 --> 01:36:13,320
experiences of ghosts dreams that can

2152
01:36:17,960 --> 01:36:15,240
truly commissions synchronicity

2153
01:36:20,420 --> 01:36:17,970
telepathy and yeah I imagines the UFO

2154
01:36:22,580 --> 01:36:20,430
phenomena in there as well yeah listen

2155
01:36:26,210 --> 01:36:22,590
when they should have follows Paul is

2156
01:36:28,250 --> 01:36:26,220
that how do you sell this to the public

2157
01:36:30,660 --> 01:36:28,260
I mean this is always part of the

2158
01:36:32,640 --> 01:36:30,670
problem conveying very

2159
01:36:36,450 --> 01:36:32,650
complicated information to people who

2160
01:36:38,580 --> 01:36:36,460
are not college graduates or their

2161
01:36:41,939 --> 01:36:38,590
graduate degrees or on subjects other

2162
01:36:45,090 --> 01:36:41,949
than psychology and stuff like that so I

2163
01:36:47,400 --> 01:36:45,100
guess we look at ET and those who

2164
01:36:50,130 --> 01:36:47,410
believe in UFOs a lot of them except DT

2165
01:36:52,169 --> 01:36:50,140
because it is a concept that's easy for

2166
01:36:55,020 --> 01:36:52,179
us to swallow

2167
01:36:57,450 --> 01:36:55,030
it's convened our cultures formed that

2168
01:37:00,750 --> 01:36:57,460
way but when you take stuff from a

2169
01:37:02,370 --> 01:37:00,760
Jacque filet or John keel or Carl Jung

2170
01:37:06,020 --> 01:37:02,380
and you start talking about collective

2171
01:37:08,640 --> 01:37:06,030
unconscious and ultra terrestrials and

2172
01:37:10,800 --> 01:37:08,650
dimensional portals and all this stuff

2173
01:37:13,229 --> 01:37:10,810
it gets to be something that causes your

2174
01:37:14,939 --> 01:37:13,239
eyes to glaze over so I guess the other

2175
01:37:18,810 --> 01:37:14,949
part of the question that I would put

2176
01:37:21,600 --> 01:37:18,820
into this is how do you convey this in a

2177
01:37:23,520 --> 01:37:21,610
way not dumbing it down but just making

2178
01:37:26,459 --> 01:37:23,530
it understandable how do you take

2179
01:37:30,000 --> 01:37:26,469
something Paul real complicated or

2180
01:37:34,560 --> 01:37:30,010
obscure and get people psyched about it

2181
01:37:40,530 --> 01:37:34,570
I think for that I'm not sure if Jung

2182
01:37:43,280 --> 01:37:40,540
was but taku is someone who was really

2183
01:37:46,500 --> 01:37:43,290
good use it you know he's got this

2184
01:37:50,250 --> 01:37:46,510
theoretical physicist scientist said yet

2185
01:37:54,270 --> 01:37:50,260
he's so easily communicate to the masses

2186
01:37:56,790 --> 01:37:54,280
on scientific theories that are very

2187
01:37:58,439 --> 01:37:56,800
complicated and he manages to put it

2188
01:38:00,330 --> 01:37:58,449
across in such a way as you want to

2189
01:38:02,189 --> 01:38:00,340
watch the show and people many people

2190
01:38:03,090 --> 01:38:02,199
they would don't have a clue about

2191
01:38:05,700 --> 01:38:03,100
physics

2192
01:38:08,100 --> 01:38:05,710
I'll be like him and many people who are

2193
01:38:08,700 --> 01:38:08,110
top physicists probably like to talk to

2194
01:38:11,340 --> 01:38:08,710
him as well

2195
01:38:14,130 --> 01:38:11,350
so I think that unique people clearly

2196
01:38:16,740 --> 01:38:14,140
care like that definitely yeah Jason

2197
01:38:19,520 --> 01:38:16,750
Plex subjects and I and present them in

2198
01:38:22,320 --> 01:38:19,530
a and easy-to-understand manner yeah

2199
01:38:24,540 --> 01:38:22,330
looks a bit like that too well his books

2200
01:38:27,330 --> 01:38:24,550
are very good in now regard politicians

2201
01:38:29,010 --> 01:38:27,340
like if that's what well the probable

2202
01:38:32,040 --> 01:38:29,020
politicians though it bothers me is

2203
01:38:34,530 --> 01:38:32,050
there so much steeped in soundbites they

2204
01:38:37,650 --> 01:38:34,540
say well of course the TV networks the

2205
01:38:40,740 --> 01:38:37,660
cable news shows they want to get 5 or

2206
01:38:43,110 --> 01:38:40,750
10 seconds pithy comments and so they

2207
01:38:43,950 --> 01:38:43,120
will basically figure out the best way

2208
01:38:45,300 --> 01:38:43,960
to

2209
01:38:46,500 --> 01:38:45,310
that comment doesn't matter it has

2210
01:38:49,350 --> 01:38:46,510
nothing to do with the issue under

2211
01:38:52,709 --> 01:38:49,360
question they have to have it distilled

2212
01:38:56,070 --> 01:38:52,719
into that 5 10 20 words and how do you

2213
01:39:01,620 --> 01:38:56,080
do that with UFOs beyond spaceships and

2214
01:39:04,170 --> 01:39:01,630
that sort of thing questioning and like

2215
01:39:06,120 --> 01:39:04,180
you said like I said some people of this

2216
01:39:09,030 --> 01:39:06,130
diff to do it and others dance I mean it

2217
01:39:11,310 --> 01:39:09,040
happens in every field in singularity

2218
01:39:12,990 --> 01:39:11,320
some cursed files of genius for you

2219
01:39:15,720 --> 01:39:13,000
maybe someone could be back there

2220
01:39:18,959 --> 01:39:15,730
communicate in the fart than he than he

2221
01:39:21,479 --> 01:39:18,969
is and it's the same in ufology I'm not

2222
01:39:23,310 --> 01:39:21,489
sure that sure would be we would say

2223
01:39:26,700 --> 01:39:23,320
would be the best at communicating in

2224
01:39:29,160 --> 01:39:26,710
the UFO field do have any ideas

2225
01:39:31,170 --> 01:39:29,170
yourselves on that one well Stanton

2226
01:39:33,600 --> 01:39:31,180
Friedman has had so much experience that

2227
01:39:35,550 --> 01:39:33,610
he's he's very good at it I tend to

2228
01:39:37,550 --> 01:39:35,560
disagree with a lot of his conclusions

2229
01:39:41,400 --> 01:39:37,560
but he does have a way of very

2230
01:39:43,740 --> 01:39:41,410
effectively and understand man or you

2231
01:39:50,780 --> 01:39:43,750
know present his his ideas and his

2232
01:39:55,590 --> 01:39:53,490
Richard Dolan is very good yeah well the

2233
01:39:58,020 --> 01:39:55,600
thing is of course Chris is that someone

2234
01:40:00,630 --> 01:39:58,030
like a Stan Freedman is still steeped in

2235
01:40:02,430 --> 01:40:00,640
et okay there in the galactic

2236
01:40:03,690 --> 01:40:02,440
neighborhood and they're doing this and

2237
01:40:06,510 --> 01:40:03,700
they're doing that and they think that

2238
01:40:11,190 --> 01:40:06,520
we're bunch of primitive fools that's a

2239
01:40:13,380 --> 01:40:11,200
very elementary expression yeah I said

2240
01:40:15,660 --> 01:40:13,390
didn't you with his conclusions but he's

2241
01:40:18,840 --> 01:40:15,670
very good at stating the stating the

2242
01:40:20,280 --> 01:40:18,850
sure position we all agree on this then

2243
01:40:22,590 --> 01:40:20,290
because I agree that he's good

2244
01:40:25,250 --> 01:40:22,600
communicator but I don't like these

2245
01:40:27,810 --> 01:40:25,260
certainty about the F hypothesis the UT

2246
01:40:31,229 --> 01:40:27,820
control of what's involved craft from

2247
01:40:33,030 --> 01:40:31,239
other planets so see we all agree on

2248
01:40:35,670 --> 01:40:33,040
that one I also wonder if some

2249
01:40:37,440 --> 01:40:35,680
researchers do it that way not because

2250
01:40:40,740 --> 01:40:37,450
they necessarily Harbor those beliefs

2251
01:40:44,340 --> 01:40:40,750
but because it's the best way to sell

2252
01:40:48,000 --> 01:40:44,350
yeah the subject give the people what

2253
01:40:50,340 --> 01:40:48,010
they want or give them what they need in

2254
01:40:52,170 --> 01:40:50,350
order to get them interested and then

2255
01:40:54,000 --> 01:40:52,180
you hopefully can take them to the next

2256
01:40:56,500 --> 01:40:54,010
level which is of course what it's all

2257
01:41:02,620 --> 01:40:56,510
about how do we move them to the neck

2258
01:41:04,899 --> 01:41:02,630
level well doing is saying that we've

2259
01:41:07,089 --> 01:41:04,909
got the committed cases there's many of

2260
01:41:10,209 --> 01:41:07,099
them and now we've got to think about

2261
01:41:12,160 --> 01:41:10,219
what are these craft and then if we can

2262
01:41:14,140 --> 01:41:12,170
decide that then we can move one of the

2263
01:41:16,540 --> 01:41:14,150
questions away for coming here what have

2264
01:41:18,129 --> 01:41:16,550
you but at the minute we don't know

2265
01:41:22,240 --> 01:41:18,139
whether they're artificial intelligence

2266
01:41:24,100 --> 01:41:22,250
secret human time travelers et and it's

2267
01:41:26,049 --> 01:41:24,110
precisely this agnosticism that's

2268
01:41:28,839 --> 01:41:26,059
necessary for silence to be interested

2269
01:41:30,160 --> 01:41:28,849
so although it sounds like a bad

2270
01:41:32,560 --> 01:41:30,170
position attack because you're not

2271
01:41:34,689 --> 01:41:32,570
reaching a definite conclusion I think

2272
01:41:37,270 --> 01:41:34,699
it's the best position that being right

2273
01:41:39,790 --> 01:41:37,280
now and then science might get involved

2274
01:41:41,319 --> 01:41:39,800
like clues him in plus Joaquin and I

2275
01:41:43,330 --> 01:41:41,329
think Wesley came if I might doesn't

2276
01:41:45,970 --> 01:41:43,340
come to a conclusion did she but what

2277
01:41:49,750 --> 01:41:45,980
theory what it is that these companies

2278
01:41:51,459 --> 01:41:49,760
CAFTA she just says that they are no

2279
01:41:53,620 --> 01:41:51,469
unintelligent becomes your craft

2280
01:41:55,899 --> 01:41:53,630
well even that's making an assumption

2281
01:41:58,270 --> 01:41:55,909
yeah and she does kind of lean I think

2282
01:42:01,390 --> 01:41:58,280
towards the ETH although not not not

2283
01:42:03,790 --> 01:42:01,400
overly but well you need to answer my

2284
01:42:05,649 --> 01:42:03,800
question which is the the one that Jean

2285
01:42:08,020 --> 01:42:05,659
kind of restated I think hard data

2286
01:42:10,450 --> 01:42:08,030
monitoring is the only way that we're

2287
01:42:12,459 --> 01:42:10,460
really gonna take this field further in

2288
01:42:14,740 --> 01:42:12,469
in the manner that you suggest and and

2289
01:42:17,020 --> 01:42:14,750
that would be identifying areas that

2290
01:42:19,240 --> 01:42:17,030
have a preponderance of activity and it

2291
01:42:22,149 --> 01:42:19,250
tends to have been floor more frequently

2292
01:42:25,180 --> 01:42:22,159
just get all your sensing equipment your

2293
01:42:28,990 --> 01:42:25,190
triangulated camera arrays and your

2294
01:42:31,930 --> 01:42:29,000
trained and vetted skywatchers and a

2295
01:42:34,450 --> 01:42:31,940
network of you know people that are

2296
01:42:36,189 --> 01:42:34,460
going to jump up if a sighting occurs

2297
01:42:38,140 --> 01:42:36,199
and your monitoring equipment starts

2298
01:42:40,359 --> 01:42:38,150
getting getting data you know having

2299
01:42:42,549 --> 01:42:40,369
people go out and get footage from

2300
01:42:44,910 --> 01:42:42,559
different angles let's say and once you

2301
01:42:48,339 --> 01:42:44,920
can triangulate on a particular event

2302
01:42:51,009 --> 01:42:48,349
visually possibly with a radar unit or a

2303
01:42:53,020 --> 01:42:51,019
magnetometer or gravimeter then you're

2304
01:42:55,660 --> 01:42:53,030
going to have the kind of data that a

2305
01:42:58,600 --> 01:42:55,670
scientist would go hmm that's

2306
01:43:02,020 --> 01:42:58,610
interesting what do we have here lights

2307
01:43:04,359 --> 01:43:02,030
in the sky the people out partying and

2308
01:43:05,799 --> 01:43:04,369
some Lovers Lane seeing something fly by

2309
01:43:07,029 --> 01:43:05,809
and they get a cell phone camera a

2310
01:43:10,030 --> 01:43:07,039
scientist isn't going to take that

2311
01:43:13,060 --> 01:43:10,040
seriously but if you have a very strict

2312
01:43:16,420 --> 01:43:13,070
set of protocols a very intelligently

2313
01:43:18,820 --> 01:43:16,430
designed scientific program in place I

2314
01:43:21,670 --> 01:43:18,830
think that that is the quickest and

2315
01:43:24,250 --> 01:43:21,680
easiest way to get scientific acceptance

2316
01:43:25,540 --> 01:43:24,260
and involvement in studying this and of

2317
01:43:28,060 --> 01:43:25,550
course you have that stumbling block

2318
01:43:30,310 --> 01:43:28,070
which I am currently having to deal with

2319
01:43:32,350 --> 01:43:30,320
and that is getting the funding to put

2320
01:43:34,480 --> 01:43:32,360
together a program like this I'm for

2321
01:43:36,730 --> 01:43:34,490
your information Paul I am attempting to

2322
01:43:39,190 --> 01:43:36,740
do exactly what I described in the San

2323
01:43:41,610 --> 01:43:39,200
Luis Valley where I invested still

2324
01:43:44,620 --> 01:43:41,620
investigated for almost 20 years now and

2325
01:43:47,020 --> 01:43:44,630
because the technology has advanced to a

2326
01:43:49,510 --> 01:43:47,030
point where the cost points are down I

2327
01:43:51,130 --> 01:43:49,520
think it's actually doable now for about

2328
01:43:54,220 --> 01:43:51,140
a hundred thousand dollars you can have

2329
01:43:56,860 --> 01:43:54,230
a state-of-the-art almost monitoring

2330
01:43:59,110 --> 01:43:56,870
program set up in a hotspot area like

2331
01:44:01,120 --> 01:43:59,120
the San Luis Valley or places all over

2332
01:44:02,770 --> 01:44:01,130
the world that this you know this could

2333
01:44:06,010 --> 01:44:02,780
be a turnkey system that could be

2334
01:44:07,570 --> 01:44:06,020
dispatched and set up anywhere so sort

2335
01:44:11,830 --> 01:44:07,580
of answer my own question that that

2336
01:44:14,320 --> 01:44:11,840
would be my suggestion instead of filing

2337
01:44:16,180 --> 01:44:14,330
all these you know is the national UFO

2338
01:44:19,330 --> 01:44:16,190
Reporting Service sure you know the

2339
01:44:21,730 --> 01:44:19,340
evident flowing of reports is important

2340
01:44:23,770 --> 01:44:21,740
to some degree but it sure hasn't helped

2341
01:44:25,360 --> 01:44:23,780
us move forward in the last 64 years I

2342
01:44:28,540 --> 01:44:25,370
think with the release of documents and

2343
01:44:30,760 --> 01:44:28,550
and you know good physical trace cases

2344
01:44:32,200 --> 01:44:30,770
for instance I've done more to move the

2345
01:44:33,790 --> 01:44:32,210
field forward really than anything else

2346
01:44:35,860 --> 01:44:33,800
so we have to move forward

2347
01:44:38,500 --> 01:44:35,870
Paul buttoms the guest Chris O'Brien's

2348
01:44:42,500 --> 01:44:38,510
the co-host I'm Jean Steinberg you're in

2349
01:44:47,650 --> 01:44:45,000
[Music]

2350
01:44:49,690 --> 01:44:47,660
hi Ted Anderson announcing a great way

2351
01:44:51,729 --> 01:44:49,700
to listen to radio on the telephone by

2352
01:44:53,590 --> 01:44:51,739
calling seven six oh five six nine

2353
01:44:55,959 --> 01:44:53,600
seventy seven hundred you'll be hearing

2354
01:44:58,450 --> 01:44:55,969
juicy and live.com programs in seconds

2355
01:45:00,550 --> 01:44:58,460
come to GCN live.com find your favorite

2356
01:45:03,190 --> 01:45:00,560
host dedicated phone number then hear

2357
01:45:05,890 --> 01:45:03,200
them 24/7 you heard me right every show

2358
01:45:07,840 --> 01:45:05,900
has a dedicated phone number stop by GC

2359
01:45:12,040 --> 01:45:07,850
and live.com and bookmark their number

2360
01:45:14,170 --> 01:45:12,050
today and again that's 7 600 5 6 9 7700

2361
01:45:15,550 --> 01:45:14,180
hi this is 10 Anderson have you ever

2362
01:45:16,930 --> 01:45:15,560
wondered why banks stock Walker's

2363
01:45:18,640 --> 01:45:16,940
investment advisors won't talk about

2364
01:45:20,920 --> 01:45:18,650
gold IRAs they've been available since

2365
01:45:22,510 --> 01:45:20,930
1986 yet the financial industry won't

2366
01:45:24,250 --> 01:45:22,520
recognize the value of gold for your

2367
01:45:26,350 --> 01:45:24,260
retirement goal has outperformed paper

2368
01:45:27,760 --> 01:45:26,360
investments yet no word about IRAs if

2369
01:45:39,920 --> 01:45:27,770
you would like to have gold for your

2370
01:45:57,640 --> 01:45:39,930
retirement call 806-853-9949

2371
01:46:02,630 --> 01:46:00,590
we progress to the final hour of the

2372
01:46:06,050 --> 01:46:02,640
power cast with gene and Chris Paul

2373
01:46:07,640 --> 01:46:06,060
budding a new voice on the UFO scene but

2374
01:46:10,850 --> 01:46:07,650
obviously he's done a lot of research

2375
01:46:15,410 --> 01:46:10,860
Paul just a quick question as we go on

2376
01:46:19,790 --> 01:46:15,420
here personally do you personally by et

2377
01:46:24,140 --> 01:46:19,800
is the final answer for UFOs possibility

2378
01:46:26,440 --> 01:46:24,150
I was actually come on alas that sort of

2379
01:46:30,650 --> 01:46:26,450
question because I wanting to say that

2380
01:46:33,650 --> 01:46:30,660
the agnostic position isn't like theists

2381
01:46:38,150 --> 01:46:33,660
are giving opposition it's get us away

2382
01:46:39,860 --> 01:46:38,160
from the UT living myth hypothesis it's

2383
01:46:42,410 --> 01:46:39,870
getting away from that projection of

2384
01:46:43,910 --> 01:46:42,420
fascination and on thinking the team

2385
01:46:45,560 --> 01:46:43,920
must be the answer because that's what

2386
01:46:49,040 --> 01:46:45,570
we want to believe and what have you and

2387
01:46:51,710 --> 01:46:49,050
I think Gnostic position at least

2388
01:46:53,900 --> 01:46:51,720
although it's not the fantastic answer

2389
01:46:56,420 --> 01:46:53,910
away which would obviously be infinitely

2390
01:46:59,080 --> 01:46:56,430
better than anything else it's a

2391
01:47:01,670 --> 01:46:59,090
realistic position and it's the one that

2392
01:47:04,640 --> 01:47:01,680
small scientifically credible laughing

2393
01:47:06,290 --> 01:47:04,650
surf Nizar where from there from the

2394
01:47:09,320 --> 01:47:06,300
living myth as I called it in the paper

2395
01:47:11,930 --> 01:47:09,330
it sounded like a no Jean that wow it's

2396
01:47:13,700 --> 01:47:11,940
a possibility well there's nothing wrong

2397
01:47:15,680 --> 01:47:13,710
with being agnostic about the whole

2398
01:47:17,510 --> 01:47:15,690
thing because I think maybe one of the

2399
01:47:19,310 --> 01:47:17,520
biggest problems we find in the UFO

2400
01:47:22,010 --> 01:47:19,320
field is the fact that we go into it

2401
01:47:24,560 --> 01:47:22,020
with expectations we're looking for et

2402
01:47:27,140 --> 01:47:24,570
let's validate it and if we can sit back

2403
01:47:29,390 --> 01:47:27,150
and go back and take a step away and say

2404
01:47:31,940 --> 01:47:29,400
we don't know what's going on let's

2405
01:47:34,790 --> 01:47:31,950
start from scratch and try to figure out

2406
01:47:37,850 --> 01:47:34,800
what's going on and if it's et so be it

2407
01:47:41,780 --> 01:47:37,860
if it's not et well we'll look at what

2408
01:47:43,340 --> 01:47:41,790
it might be distinct

2409
01:47:45,790 --> 01:47:43,350
I think it's good to distinguish from

2410
01:47:48,440 --> 01:47:45,800
people who are just interested in the

2411
01:47:51,110 --> 01:47:48,450
fascination of the issue people who are

2412
01:47:53,650 --> 01:47:51,120
wanting to be objective about it and I

2413
01:47:56,330 --> 01:47:53,660
love that it's not agnosticism

2414
01:47:57,770 --> 01:47:56,340
concerning is something out there I'm

2415
01:48:00,050 --> 01:47:57,780
pretty confident that there's something

2416
01:48:02,660 --> 01:48:00,060
out there that's seen this intelligent

2417
01:48:05,810 --> 01:48:02,670
craft it's not Gnostic isn't about what

2418
01:48:08,210 --> 01:48:05,820
it is so that's a crucial distinction it

2419
01:48:11,060 --> 01:48:08,220
yeah it's we are agnostic about

2420
01:48:14,120 --> 01:48:11,070
conclusions about what intelligence may

2421
01:48:17,060 --> 01:48:14,130
be behind it yeah well there's a lot of

2422
01:48:19,040 --> 01:48:17,070
I think sightings that are misconstrued

2423
01:48:22,820 --> 01:48:19,050
as something intelligently controlled

2424
01:48:26,120 --> 01:48:22,830
possibly mechanical in nature especially

2425
01:48:27,800 --> 01:48:26,130
at night when you have crafts that are

2426
01:48:28,880 --> 01:48:27,810
lighted up and of course my questions

2427
01:48:31,340 --> 01:48:28,890
always been why do they have to turn

2428
01:48:33,650 --> 01:48:31,350
lights on light themselves up like a

2429
01:48:36,230 --> 01:48:33,660
Christmas tree and then go sailing over

2430
01:48:38,540 --> 01:48:36,240
the the countryside and that's never

2431
01:48:39,890 --> 01:48:38,550
really made much sense to me but of

2432
01:48:41,330 --> 01:48:39,900
course there is an answer to that if

2433
01:48:43,760 --> 01:48:41,340
there is some sort of plasma cloud

2434
01:48:45,800 --> 01:48:43,770
around it it's going to be giving off

2435
01:48:48,260 --> 01:48:45,810
some sort of light so that could be one

2436
01:48:50,240 --> 01:48:48,270
possible explanation but I think most

2437
01:48:52,700 --> 01:48:50,250
people when they see something that they

2438
01:48:55,070 --> 01:48:52,710
can't explain I think that they as you

2439
01:48:58,400 --> 01:48:55,080
pointed out earlier they tend to put the

2440
01:49:00,140 --> 01:48:58,410
details of it into the experience in

2441
01:49:03,610 --> 01:49:00,150
their memory of it based on their

2442
01:49:07,610 --> 01:49:03,620
expectations and based on their their

2443
01:49:11,030 --> 01:49:07,620
you know unwillingness to suspend their

2444
01:49:13,070 --> 01:49:11,040
disbelief in in many ways and and just

2445
01:49:15,530 --> 01:49:13,080
jump to a particular conclusion instead

2446
01:49:16,580 --> 01:49:15,540
of being agnostic about it but again you

2447
01:49:18,560 --> 01:49:16,590
know we're kind of going around in

2448
01:49:20,720 --> 01:49:18,570
circles here I think hard data

2449
01:49:24,170 --> 01:49:20,730
monitoring is the way to move this field

2450
01:49:27,070 --> 01:49:24,180
forward getting some people that are in

2451
01:49:30,680 --> 01:49:27,080
a position to fund projects such as this

2452
01:49:33,010 --> 01:49:30,690
get them involved get them excited

2453
01:49:35,750 --> 01:49:33,020
invigorated by the possibility of

2454
01:49:37,700 --> 01:49:35,760
discovery and move forward and start

2455
01:49:38,840 --> 01:49:37,710
collecting real hard scientific data

2456
01:49:40,310 --> 01:49:38,850
because the only way you're gonna get

2457
01:49:42,860 --> 01:49:40,320
scientists involved is if they have

2458
01:49:47,330 --> 01:49:42,870
quality data that they can rely on to to

2459
01:49:49,520 --> 01:49:47,340
to work with so I think that is really

2460
01:49:51,020 --> 01:49:49,530
important let's figure out what it is as

2461
01:49:53,570 --> 01:49:51,030
you point out in your paper before we

2462
01:49:57,830 --> 01:49:53,580
try to jump ahead and figure out who it

2463
01:50:00,980 --> 01:49:57,840
is what is behind the actual mystery I'm

2464
01:50:05,780 --> 01:50:00,990
off my soapbox now gene that's okay so

2465
01:50:07,700 --> 01:50:05,790
what's your response to that Paul I also

2466
01:50:10,070 --> 01:50:07,710
think I was going to write the father I

2467
01:50:13,310 --> 01:50:10,080
think politicians would be fast to show

2468
01:50:15,290 --> 01:50:13,320
at a Fiat respect if if it groups if the

2469
01:50:18,220 --> 01:50:15,300
field could show it's different from the

2470
01:50:20,000 --> 01:50:18,230
myth the living myth but this would need

2471
01:50:22,100 --> 01:50:20,010
serious physicists

2472
01:50:24,680 --> 01:50:22,110
some technologists and so far they would

2473
01:50:27,830 --> 01:50:24,690
either come forward and understand

2474
01:50:29,990 --> 01:50:27,840
before people not just the very top ones

2475
01:50:32,600 --> 01:50:30,000
like cafe poor people so I don't think

2476
01:50:34,850 --> 01:50:32,610
we haven't heard of and that's our color

2477
01:50:37,910 --> 01:50:34,860
the people to come forward when Darcy

2478
01:50:40,759 --> 01:50:37,920
and I think they're politicians would

2479
01:50:43,370 --> 01:50:40,769
follow more of the scientists by them

2480
01:50:44,779 --> 01:50:43,380
all right it's too toxic for politicians

2481
01:50:49,009 --> 01:50:44,789
to address look what happened to Dennis

2482
01:50:51,229 --> 01:50:49,019
Kucinich in the last the 2008 election

2483
01:50:53,419 --> 01:50:51,239
when he was at the debates and it come

2484
01:50:55,910 --> 01:50:53,429
out that I think who was a truly maclean

2485
01:50:58,479 --> 01:50:55,920
gene that mentioned that Dennis Kucinich

2486
01:51:00,919 --> 01:50:58,489
had had a sighting and I think it was

2487
01:51:02,540 --> 01:51:00,929
Chris Matthews popped the question and

2488
01:51:05,200 --> 01:51:02,550
one of the debates and everybody had a

2489
01:51:07,879 --> 01:51:05,210
nice little chuckle at his expense I

2490
01:51:10,640 --> 01:51:07,889
think it's too toxic it's it's a low

2491
01:51:12,500 --> 01:51:10,650
status subject anyone that professes

2492
01:51:15,890 --> 01:51:12,510
interested in this subject I think

2493
01:51:17,839 --> 01:51:15,900
politically in a political arena is is

2494
01:51:20,870 --> 01:51:17,849
really setting themselves up for fall

2495
01:51:24,250 --> 01:51:20,880
yeah so I think that politicians can't

2496
01:51:27,229 --> 01:51:24,260
or won't come on to endorse in this

2497
01:51:29,509 --> 01:51:27,239
subject until that scientific

2498
01:51:32,299 --> 01:51:29,519
credibility that's why for example you

2499
01:51:33,979 --> 01:51:32,309
won't have a situation like with Dennis

2500
01:51:37,069 --> 01:51:33,989
Kucinich you know he's thought of as

2501
01:51:39,379 --> 01:51:37,079
being a crackpot anyway even though you

2502
01:51:41,180 --> 01:51:39,389
know he has a lot of things to say that

2503
01:51:43,250 --> 01:51:41,190
a lot of people agree with but they

2504
01:51:47,359 --> 01:51:43,260
think of him as a crank so they think of

2505
01:51:54,500 --> 01:51:47,369
his a crank Wow okay so Shirley MacLaine

2506
01:51:59,750 --> 01:51:54,510
is a bigger crank there you go crank

2507
01:52:02,029 --> 01:51:59,760
factor ministers come on and in fact a

2508
01:52:11,180 --> 01:52:02,039
UFO isn't there yeah I'm Paul Hellyer

2509
01:52:12,470 --> 01:52:11,190
you know of course it's between Ronald

2510
01:52:14,870 --> 01:52:12,480
Reagan was very interested in the

2511
01:52:16,040 --> 01:52:14,880
subject privately Bill Clinton's very

2512
01:52:17,359 --> 01:52:16,050
interested in the subject I believe

2513
01:52:19,430 --> 01:52:17,369
course Jimmy Carter actually came out

2514
01:52:20,779 --> 01:52:19,440
publicly and professed an interest in

2515
01:52:23,930 --> 01:52:20,789
this subject of course as soon as he was

2516
01:52:31,129 --> 01:52:23,940
elected that he did an abrupt about-face

2517
01:52:36,469 --> 01:52:31,139
on that one I mean in the UK I think

2518
01:52:39,199 --> 01:52:36,479
honey right you know that's that's true

2519
01:52:42,199 --> 01:52:39,209
there's you're not gonna get your

2520
01:52:43,459 --> 01:52:42,209
average politician I think the ten-foot

2521
01:52:46,609 --> 01:52:43,469
pole that they're holding wouldn't even

2522
01:52:48,879 --> 01:52:46,619
touch the subject actually it's toxic

2523
01:52:51,409 --> 01:52:48,889
the professing belief in a low status

2524
01:52:55,279 --> 01:52:51,419
subject like this is political suicide

2525
01:52:57,620 --> 01:52:55,289
and and it's gonna take a landing on the

2526
01:53:00,979 --> 01:52:57,630
White House lawn to change change minds

2527
01:53:12,080 --> 01:53:00,989
you know and kind of make that a moot

2528
01:53:14,959 --> 01:53:12,090
point if you will scientific credibility

2529
01:53:18,139 --> 01:53:14,969
would help but Mike Wilson area I think

2530
01:53:20,060 --> 01:53:18,149
that the disclosure idea is a

2531
01:53:22,819 --> 01:53:20,070
non-starter because they don't want to

2532
01:53:24,169 --> 01:53:22,829
admit that the importance here the

2533
01:53:27,529 --> 01:53:24,179
Dhamma damn it they're they're clueless

2534
01:53:29,270 --> 01:53:27,539
about what these crafts are and at the

2535
01:53:33,830 --> 01:53:29,280
same time have to admit what they have

2536
01:53:38,120 --> 01:53:33,840
been doing regarding nuclear facilities

2537
01:53:39,409 --> 01:53:38,130
regarding um affairs in US airspace for

2538
01:53:42,649 --> 01:53:39,419
Congress in the 50s

2539
01:53:46,219 --> 01:53:42,659
Oh doesn't make any sense to admit up so

2540
01:53:48,250 --> 01:53:46,229
the pots or politicians that man do see

2541
01:53:50,509 --> 01:53:48,260
what's going on to a certain extent but

2542
01:53:52,299 --> 01:53:50,519
still not able to come out and say

2543
01:53:55,750 --> 01:53:52,309
anything about it

2544
01:53:58,179 --> 01:53:55,760
you know Claiborne Pell was one that

2545
01:54:02,330 --> 01:53:58,189
Professor an interest in this subject

2546
01:54:04,939 --> 01:54:02,340
privately and I think CB Scott Jones his

2547
01:54:09,319 --> 01:54:04,949
I think X a naval intelligence officer

2548
01:54:11,600 --> 01:54:09,329
who was one of his assistants was very

2549
01:54:16,250 --> 01:54:11,610
involved in the subject with the the

2550
01:54:18,379 --> 01:54:16,260
Peter Sturrock symposium and I think

2551
01:54:22,790 --> 01:54:18,389
he's working now with Carol Roz and

2552
01:54:25,969 --> 01:54:22,800
trying to get a weapons space ban was

2553
01:54:28,939 --> 01:54:25,979
space-based weapons but yeah it's gonna

2554
01:54:31,489 --> 01:54:28,949
it's gonna be a cold day in the Sahara

2555
01:54:35,199 --> 01:54:31,499
before I think any politician comes out

2556
01:54:38,870 --> 01:54:35,209
or like David Wilcock who's one of our

2557
01:54:41,450 --> 01:54:38,880
XO politics tinged guys here in the US

2558
01:54:44,810 --> 01:54:41,460
he he made the big announcement that

2559
01:54:47,630 --> 01:54:44,820
I think Barack Obama and what was a gene

2560
01:54:49,220 --> 01:54:47,640
right around Thanksgiving was gonna he's

2561
01:54:50,510 --> 01:54:49,230
already bought airtime and all the

2562
01:54:52,640 --> 01:54:50,520
networks and was going to come out with

2563
01:54:54,710 --> 01:54:52,650
a hand in hand with an alien right

2564
01:54:56,930 --> 01:54:54,720
that's the latest of a long line of

2565
01:54:58,640 --> 01:54:56,940
theories we hear that every few months

2566
01:55:00,920 --> 01:54:58,650
well this president or the previous

2567
01:55:03,830 --> 01:55:00,930
president or the next one will come out

2568
01:55:05,690 --> 01:55:03,840
with a statement about UFOs and this is

2569
01:55:07,340 --> 01:55:05,700
when it's gonna happen and that doesn't

2570
01:55:09,860 --> 01:55:07,350
happen but you always have the excuse

2571
01:55:13,670 --> 01:55:09,870
well they change their mind at the last

2572
01:55:15,380 --> 01:55:13,680
minute they decided not to have this

2573
01:55:19,310 --> 01:55:15,390
revelation because of one reason or

2574
01:55:21,350 --> 01:55:19,320
another or et phoned them before phoning

2575
01:55:23,450 --> 01:55:21,360
home and said hey folks you can't do

2576
01:55:26,000 --> 01:55:23,460
that we're not going to allow it so

2577
01:55:27,920 --> 01:55:26,010
sorry about it forget about it there's

2578
01:55:30,440 --> 01:55:27,930
always an excuse when it doesn't happen

2579
01:55:32,840 --> 01:55:30,450
no excuses we have Paul budding on the

2580
01:55:36,780 --> 01:55:32,850
show I'm gene Steinberg the co-host is

2581
01:55:44,439 --> 01:55:36,790
Chris O'Brien you're in the para cast

2582
01:55:46,939 --> 01:55:44,449
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02:00:11,330 --> 02:00:08,400
don't forget to visit our famous pair of

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cast community forums at forum dot the

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2670
02:00:26,780 --> 02:00:24,480
about new ufology we're trying to get

2671
02:00:31,070 --> 02:00:26,790
things off dead center here some people

2672
02:00:32,570 --> 02:00:31,080
say the UFO field is toxic I think I've

2673
02:00:34,730 --> 02:00:32,580
said that but a lot of people have said

2674
02:00:36,710 --> 02:00:34,740
that you're with gene and Chris on the

2675
02:00:39,620 --> 02:00:36,720
power cast so I raised that question

2676
02:00:41,840 --> 02:00:39,630
some people just are so disgusted with

2677
02:00:44,390 --> 02:00:41,850
the infighting in the UFO field with the

2678
02:00:50,870 --> 02:00:44,400
fakers two frauds they want to give it

2679
02:00:53,570 --> 02:00:50,880
all up do you think it's all worth it's

2680
02:00:56,000 --> 02:00:53,580
definitely worth anything out of it it's

2681
02:00:57,830 --> 02:00:56,010
not I mean look at some people you're

2682
02:01:00,170 --> 02:00:57,840
mentioning Stanton Friedman he's being

2683
02:01:03,520 --> 02:01:00,180
working in the field for decades yeah

2684
02:01:06,860 --> 02:01:03,530
Nick part finger and not for as long but

2685
02:01:08,480 --> 02:01:06,870
since the nineties he seems to be very

2686
02:01:12,230 --> 02:01:08,490
happy doing what he does it wasn't all

2687
02:01:13,580 --> 02:01:12,240
that networks and the US I think not

2688
02:01:15,680 --> 02:01:13,590
just think we're it and along the world

2689
02:01:17,360 --> 02:01:15,690
and we think he enjoys it fully yeah I

2690
02:01:21,090 --> 02:01:17,370
think it's working for some people but

2691
02:01:22,960 --> 02:01:21,100
if you want a definite answer maybe not

2692
02:01:25,900 --> 02:01:22,970
[Laughter]

2693
02:01:28,370 --> 02:01:25,910
boy that's hedging your bets there a guy

2694
02:01:30,050 --> 02:01:28,380
that was good though I like that gene

2695
02:01:32,030 --> 02:01:30,060
yeah you go ahead and ask me that

2696
02:01:33,830 --> 02:01:32,040
question you know my answer would be the

2697
02:01:37,250 --> 02:01:33,840
question is asked what is your answer

2698
02:01:40,100 --> 02:01:37,260
hell no it's not worth it it is not

2699
02:01:42,770 --> 02:01:40,110
worth it that's why I'm God at tar-baby

2700
02:01:46,100 --> 02:01:42,780
stuck to my face I think we have you in

2701
02:01:48,320 --> 02:01:46,110
this chair and we have the ropes around

2702
02:01:51,290 --> 02:01:48,330
your neck and if you give up the UFO

2703
02:01:54,320 --> 02:01:51,300
field we will pull the ropes making them

2704
02:01:57,830 --> 02:01:54,330
very tight and soon you will cry uncle

2705
02:01:59,480 --> 02:01:57,840
aunt sister brother let me out of here

2706
02:02:02,000 --> 02:01:59,490
you know it saves me gene I'm an

2707
02:02:04,550 --> 02:02:02,010
anomalous tie I look at all sorts of

2708
02:02:07,189 --> 02:02:04,560
things not only UFOs I cringe when

2709
02:02:09,889 --> 02:02:07,199
people refer to me as a ufologist and I

2710
02:02:11,479 --> 02:02:09,899
very rapidly correct them you can call

2711
02:02:13,359 --> 02:02:11,489
me anything you want and even late for

2712
02:02:15,709 --> 02:02:13,369
dinner just don't call me a ufologist

2713
02:02:20,199 --> 02:02:15,719
interesting question here I'll ask Paul

2714
02:02:26,089 --> 02:02:23,839
basically so is that a day job

2715
02:02:28,310 --> 02:02:26,099
that's a day job I'm yes if it's not no

2716
02:02:34,969 --> 02:02:28,320
okay so you write about stuff other than

2717
02:02:38,209 --> 02:02:34,979
UFOs yeah sports and these two union

2718
02:02:41,209 --> 02:02:38,219
type publishers that advertised in as I

2719
02:02:43,989 --> 02:02:41,219
write so that's my main where after an

2720
02:02:47,569 --> 02:02:43,999
income okay so what got you involved in

2721
02:02:49,250 --> 02:02:47,579
UFOs is crazy quilt field yeah have you

2722
02:02:53,330 --> 02:02:49,260
ever had a sighting or are you an

2723
02:02:56,209 --> 02:02:53,340
experiencer did et come and like visit

2724
02:02:58,489 --> 02:02:56,219
you in the night or two when I was at

2725
02:03:01,600 --> 02:02:58,499
University study in social science and

2726
02:03:05,000 --> 02:03:01,610
saw Young's books in psychology section

2727
02:03:07,429 --> 02:03:05,010
bit by bit looking looking at his books

2728
02:03:11,149 --> 02:03:07,439
it was like a combination of academic

2729
02:03:14,120 --> 02:03:11,159
which I was used to and also he's a he's

2730
02:03:17,089 --> 02:03:14,130
our tariff meaning side of life combined

2731
02:03:20,060 --> 02:03:17,099
and I think that the UFO thing I'm doing

2732
02:03:22,819 --> 02:03:20,070
now is similar to that it comes out of

2733
02:03:23,779 --> 02:03:22,829
that really it's that focus on it

2734
02:03:26,659 --> 02:03:23,789
academically

2735
02:03:29,120 --> 02:03:26,669
there's also half even for people which

2736
02:03:32,120 --> 02:03:29,130
IP objetive about it that feeling of

2737
02:03:35,179 --> 02:03:32,130
meaning towards it it's not entirely

2738
02:03:37,609 --> 02:03:35,189
divorced so that's why I got into the

2739
02:03:40,819 --> 02:03:37,619
UFOs because it's an interesting topic

2740
02:03:42,279 --> 02:03:40,829
basically very interesting oh it could

2741
02:03:45,679 --> 02:03:42,289
be you know paradigm-shifting

2742
02:03:47,959 --> 02:03:45,689
groundbreaking you know I mean if we do

2743
02:03:49,189 --> 02:03:47,969
finally come up with some answers which

2744
02:03:51,229 --> 02:03:49,199
I don't think is gonna happen in at

2745
02:03:53,509 --> 02:03:51,239
least my lifetime if we do come up with

2746
02:03:55,310 --> 02:03:53,519
answers at some point it's going to

2747
02:03:57,520 --> 02:03:55,320
totally change everything this is could

2748
02:04:00,770 --> 02:03:57,530
potentially be one of the most important

2749
02:04:03,049 --> 02:04:00,780
subjects ever addressed by you pants

2750
02:04:05,120 --> 02:04:03,059
especially if there is some sort of et

2751
02:04:07,819 --> 02:04:05,130
presence up perhaps all these theories

2752
02:04:10,479 --> 02:04:07,829
may have some truth to them perhaps we

2753
02:04:14,659 --> 02:04:10,489
are dealing with time travelers

2754
02:04:16,759 --> 02:04:14,669
dimensional shifters returning dinosaurs

2755
02:04:18,799 --> 02:04:16,769
that became spacefaring maybe they're

2756
02:04:21,080 --> 02:04:18,809
coming back and trying to reclaim earth

2757
02:04:23,120 --> 02:04:21,090
you know you just

2758
02:04:25,189 --> 02:04:23,130
there's so many possibilities and and

2759
02:04:26,839 --> 02:04:25,199
this is such a complicated subject I

2760
02:04:29,120 --> 02:04:26,849
would be very surprised if a lot of

2761
02:04:30,350 --> 02:04:29,130
these inks were you I wouldn't be

2762
02:04:32,479 --> 02:04:30,360
surprised if a lot of these things were

2763
02:04:35,180 --> 02:04:32,489
going on simultaneously and and and

2764
02:04:37,040 --> 02:04:35,190
secret black aircraft and and collective

2765
02:04:40,089 --> 02:04:37,050
unconscious projections of mandala

2766
02:04:44,000 --> 02:04:40,099
images and it's probably a huge

2767
02:04:45,800 --> 02:04:44,010
potpourri kind of evil brew some sort of

2768
02:04:47,270 --> 02:04:45,810
soup that's bubbling over in in a

2769
02:04:49,790 --> 02:04:47,280
cauldron with all these different

2770
02:04:51,439 --> 02:04:49,800
elements in it that that's the further

2771
02:04:54,439 --> 02:04:51,449
along I get the least in this field

2772
02:05:01,280 --> 02:04:54,449
that's my I have that suspicion more and

2773
02:05:03,229 --> 02:05:01,290
more my soul packs again that was well

2774
02:05:05,390 --> 02:05:03,239
when did that start what and I don't

2775
02:05:07,220 --> 02:05:05,400
mean when was orc and when was it see

2776
02:05:09,320 --> 02:05:07,230
when women secretly flying

2777
02:05:11,180 --> 02:05:09,330
I'm the desert Samadhi Fitness that in

2778
02:05:13,390 --> 02:05:11,190
the late seventies or eighties and we've

2779
02:05:16,970 --> 02:05:13,400
got a whole decade before there were no

2780
02:05:19,520 --> 02:05:16,980
announced you know openly is an electric

2781
02:05:21,680 --> 02:05:19,530
craft so a lot of the examples I give is

2782
02:05:24,320 --> 02:05:21,690
if you saw a stealth aircraft in the you

2783
02:05:26,089 --> 02:05:24,330
know the late 80s and you had your radio

2784
02:05:29,629 --> 02:05:26,099
on you couldn't hear an engine you saw a

2785
02:05:33,020 --> 02:05:29,639
UFO and there you go I haven't seen a

2786
02:05:34,399 --> 02:05:33,030
UFO so I don't know Paul do you think

2787
02:05:37,339 --> 02:05:34,409
you're gonna be doing this forty years

2788
02:05:38,750 --> 02:05:37,349
from now you're 37 when you're 77 you're

2789
02:05:42,229 --> 02:05:38,760
still here because people will be living

2790
02:06:00,109 --> 02:05:42,239
forever when you're 77 do you expect

2791
02:06:01,939 --> 02:06:00,119
this will be all solved because if the

2792
02:06:04,430 --> 02:06:01,949
solution if the answer was there a human

2793
02:06:07,370 --> 02:06:04,440
technology then probably not going to

2794
02:06:09,950 --> 02:06:07,380
ever announced announced that so that

2795
02:06:12,200 --> 02:06:09,960
would be not what if they're 80 that's

2796
02:06:14,060 --> 02:06:12,210
probably not as well so I'm very

2797
02:06:16,729 --> 02:06:14,070
skeptical about it being solved in that

2798
02:06:18,950 --> 02:06:16,739
sense I'd be the best hope is not the

2799
02:06:22,220 --> 02:06:18,960
disclosure from the president not it's

2800
02:06:24,890 --> 02:06:22,230
from people like yourselves and others

2801
02:06:27,680 --> 02:06:24,900
who were who might potentially be

2802
02:06:29,629 --> 02:06:27,690
interested in this subject realizing

2803
02:06:31,550 --> 02:06:29,639
there is something to it and I'm looking

2804
02:06:32,529 --> 02:06:31,560
into it themselves and I think away from

2805
02:06:35,739 --> 02:06:32,539
the ground or

2806
02:06:37,359 --> 02:06:35,749
I often use a top-down solution not a

2807
02:06:39,489 --> 02:06:37,369
top-down me and not top-down from the

2808
02:06:42,429 --> 02:06:39,499
president so that I don't think it will

2809
02:06:43,809 --> 02:06:42,439
get solved that way so I'm on the

2810
02:06:46,119 --> 02:06:43,819
flexion with a question you asked that

2811
02:06:48,489 --> 02:06:46,129
slightly change it - with it if it was

2812
02:06:50,349 --> 02:06:48,499
soft it would be from the bottom law and

2813
02:06:53,129 --> 02:06:50,359
the public seen that there is something

2814
02:06:56,529 --> 02:06:53,139
to it I mean you need more people

2815
02:06:58,749 --> 02:06:56,539
involved who are like the Richard Dolan

2816
02:07:00,639 --> 02:06:58,759
and so on when he spoke at Leeds

2817
02:07:01,689 --> 02:07:00,649
Metropolitan University which is very

2818
02:07:04,089 --> 02:07:01,699
close to where I live

2819
02:07:06,309 --> 02:07:04,099
and I did agree I didn't realize that

2820
02:07:10,539 --> 02:07:06,319
they would allow someone to come in and

2821
02:07:11,649 --> 02:07:10,549
talk so openly about UFOs you know I

2822
02:07:13,839 --> 02:07:11,659
didn't think I would happen out here

2823
02:07:15,339 --> 02:07:13,849
sighs I don't know if it's progress it

2824
02:07:17,139 --> 02:07:15,349
might be exaggerated in there maybe it

2825
02:07:20,709 --> 02:07:17,149
would've happened 10 years ago 20 years

2826
02:07:22,499 --> 02:07:20,719
ago but as far as I'm concerned as power

2827
02:07:29,619 --> 02:07:22,509
if that was a first for me

2828
02:07:31,419 --> 02:07:29,629
you know it's progress yeah it happened

2829
02:07:33,519 --> 02:07:31,429
that's do you follow just coming in for

2830
02:07:34,869 --> 02:07:33,529
your speaking that book I was surprised

2831
02:07:39,279 --> 02:07:34,879
and yeah I didn't I wasn't loved

2832
02:07:40,449 --> 02:07:39,289
anything I just saw it on YouTube what

2833
02:07:43,809 --> 02:07:40,459
are some of the theories that you've

2834
02:07:45,639 --> 02:07:43,819
kind of pondered and possibly even

2835
02:07:48,639 --> 02:07:45,649
researched I mean do you have any any

2836
02:07:50,889 --> 02:07:48,649
pet theories that maybe more you know

2837
02:07:55,329 --> 02:07:50,899
more of the exotic pet theories as

2838
02:08:00,419 --> 02:07:55,339
opposed to black projects or manifested

2839
02:08:02,799 --> 02:08:00,429
psych isms designs try to convince me of

2840
02:08:04,779 --> 02:08:02,809
artificial intelligence combining it

2841
02:08:09,839 --> 02:08:04,789
with a singularity theory of reoccurs

2842
02:08:15,069 --> 02:08:09,849
file saying that these planets Lobby

2843
02:08:17,349 --> 02:08:15,079
begins you know and it was a via and who

2844
02:08:20,379 --> 02:08:17,359
would have a fish of intelligence by now

2845
02:08:21,719 --> 02:08:20,389
and so these aren't ETS biological

2846
02:08:25,329 --> 02:08:21,729
beings coming down little squishy

2847
02:08:27,849 --> 02:08:25,339
they're actually robots it sounds just

2848
02:08:30,039 --> 02:08:27,859
as bizarre as the original theory though

2849
02:08:31,869 --> 02:08:30,049
doesn't it that's the problem I mean it

2850
02:08:33,369 --> 02:08:31,879
actually makes more sense to me I'll

2851
02:08:35,349 --> 02:08:33,379
tell you what makes sense that we're

2852
02:08:37,179 --> 02:08:35,359
talking to Paul budding I'm Jean

2853
02:08:41,810 --> 02:08:37,189
Steinberg the co-host is Chris O'Brien

2854
02:08:46,839 --> 02:08:44,640
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2880
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2886
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2887
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2889
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2943
02:12:37,899 --> 02:12:34,989
visit zio king.com that's zeo king.com

2944
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2945
02:12:41,939 --> 02:12:39,519
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2946
02:12:46,520 --> 02:12:41,949
america's number one source for

2947
02:12:53,450 --> 02:12:46,530
independent talk radio for over a decade

2948
02:12:54,620 --> 02:12:53,460
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2949
02:12:56,299 --> 02:12:54,630
the bear guest

2950
02:13:02,350 --> 02:12:56,309
you never know what's going to happen

2951
02:13:08,000 --> 02:13:05,479
we're back with Paula budding we're

2952
02:13:10,370 --> 02:13:08,010
talking about the new ufology and where

2953
02:13:12,620 --> 02:13:10,380
the feel is going and how we can get the

2954
02:13:14,629 --> 02:13:12,630
thing off dead center with gene and

2955
02:13:18,949 --> 02:13:14,639
Chris on the para cast Chris you want to

2956
02:13:22,459 --> 02:13:18,959
pick up on this yeah I tend to think

2957
02:13:25,459 --> 02:13:22,469
that some sort of robotic or a

2958
02:13:28,370 --> 02:13:25,469
mechanistic pilot would make more sense

2959
02:13:29,870 --> 02:13:28,380
because of the vast distances that these

2960
02:13:32,719 --> 02:13:29,880
crafts would have to travel and you know

2961
02:13:36,549 --> 02:13:32,729
probably take quite a bit of time unless

2962
02:13:41,120 --> 02:13:36,559
of course they have broken line signs

2963
02:13:43,850 --> 02:13:41,130
you know pretty hard fast rule of of the

2964
02:13:48,850 --> 02:13:43,860
speed of light faster than I travel has

2965
02:13:50,180 --> 02:13:48,860
been kicked around but we do know that

2966
02:13:54,919 --> 02:13:50,190
nonlocality

2967
02:14:00,169 --> 02:13:54,929
and in quantum entanglement has shown

2968
02:14:02,719 --> 02:14:00,179
that that I think like particles can be

2969
02:14:04,399 --> 02:14:02,729
affected you know you know you know

2970
02:14:06,439 --> 02:14:04,409
faster than light man or I think that's

2971
02:14:10,390 --> 02:14:06,449
pretty much been proven but but to

2972
02:14:13,910 --> 02:14:10,400
actually apply those pretty outrageous

2973
02:14:16,250 --> 02:14:13,920
you know qualities quantum qualities to

2974
02:14:17,979 --> 02:14:16,260
physical craft coming here from you know

2975
02:14:22,549 --> 02:14:17,989
some other star system

2976
02:14:23,680 --> 02:14:22,559
it almost negates a biological pilot and

2977
02:14:26,479 --> 02:14:23,690
unless they were you know

2978
02:14:27,979 --> 02:14:26,489
multi-generational pilots that that

2979
02:14:29,209 --> 02:14:27,989
we're traveling here and maybe the

2980
02:14:31,310 --> 02:14:29,219
great-great-great great-grandfather

2981
02:14:33,500 --> 02:14:31,320
started out on the launch and it ends up

2982
02:14:35,660 --> 02:14:33,510
being one of the progeny you know

2983
02:14:37,279 --> 02:14:35,670
thousands of years later so you're not

2984
02:14:40,489 --> 02:14:37,289
assuming they have work drive and get

2985
02:14:43,160 --> 02:14:40,499
here in three days well you know again

2986
02:14:45,199 --> 02:14:43,170
that's not I guess it's not out of the

2987
02:14:46,370 --> 02:14:45,209
realm of possibility but again that's

2988
02:14:48,859 --> 02:14:46,380
that's really in the realm of science

2989
02:14:51,589 --> 02:14:48,869
fiction right now we right now with our

2990
02:14:56,660 --> 02:14:51,599
level of understanding that's not a

2991
02:14:58,430 --> 02:14:56,670
scientifically acceptable possibility

2992
02:15:01,040 --> 02:14:58,440
right now based on my understanding of

2993
02:15:03,680 --> 02:15:01,050
it but I could be wrong maybe there are

2994
02:15:05,449 --> 02:15:03,690
some some breakthroughs that have been

2995
02:15:08,770 --> 02:15:05,459
made that have been you know died Walsh

2996
02:15:11,930 --> 02:15:08,780
and made public maybe you know there is

2997
02:15:15,700 --> 02:15:11,940
FTL faster than light travel

2998
02:15:18,290 --> 02:15:15,710
I don't know but as it stands now I

2999
02:15:20,420 --> 02:15:18,300
couldn't see how anything out there

3000
02:15:22,040 --> 02:15:20,430
would think we were remotely interesting

3001
02:15:24,860 --> 02:15:22,050
enough to come all that way to visit us

3002
02:15:26,240 --> 02:15:24,870
and still be seen picking flowers and

3003
02:15:28,520 --> 02:15:26,250
looking at rocks like they've never seen

3004
02:15:30,200 --> 02:15:28,530
them before could throw something in

3005
02:15:31,700 --> 02:15:30,210
orbit around this planet the size of a

3006
02:15:34,900 --> 02:15:31,710
beer keg and find out anything you

3007
02:15:38,360 --> 02:15:34,910
possibly want to know so just the whole

3008
02:15:40,160 --> 02:15:38,370
absurdity and the giggle factor the

3009
02:15:43,550 --> 02:15:40,170
trickster qualities of some of these

3010
02:15:45,890 --> 02:15:43,560
pilots as they've been described to me

3011
02:15:50,180 --> 02:15:45,900
doesn't it doesn't make sense it doesn't

3012
02:15:52,040 --> 02:15:50,190
jive with the the concept of aliens

3013
02:15:54,140 --> 02:15:52,050
coming here from from another planet I

3014
02:15:56,290 --> 02:15:54,150
think we're you know like the guy I knew

3015
02:15:59,540 --> 02:15:56,300
Agent Smith in the matrix when he said

3016
02:16:01,340 --> 02:15:59,550
humans are a virus I think we're

3017
02:16:03,560 --> 02:16:01,350
detrimental and if they're interested in

3018
02:16:05,000 --> 02:16:03,570
anything it's the wonderful biodiversity

3019
02:16:08,000 --> 02:16:05,010
that the planet has and we're actually

3020
02:16:11,000 --> 02:16:08,010
in the way where we're very detrimental

3021
02:16:14,420 --> 02:16:11,010
to that biodiversity we're losing dozens

3022
02:16:15,830 --> 02:16:14,430
of species a year oh I think a dozen a

3023
02:16:17,930 --> 02:16:15,840
day or something I forget what the

3024
02:16:21,709 --> 02:16:17,940
figure is but it's just it's terrible

3025
02:16:23,390 --> 02:16:21,719
terrific or so et seated us here they're

3026
02:16:25,310 --> 02:16:23,400
just watching their creation

3027
02:16:33,799 --> 02:16:25,320
well that's true we could be like you

3028
02:16:36,350 --> 02:16:33,809
know alien and form these UFOs flying

3029
02:16:38,419 --> 02:16:36,360
around tal you with pilots a lot so it

3030
02:16:39,890 --> 02:16:38,429
sounds more human-like to me but to get

3031
02:16:42,830 --> 02:16:39,900
back to the earth the artificial

3032
02:16:44,660 --> 02:16:42,840
intelligence theory that wouldn't

3033
02:16:47,600 --> 02:16:44,670
require anyone on board because Connie

3034
02:16:51,500 --> 02:16:47,610
Kurzweil singularity feely machines

3035
02:16:54,049 --> 02:16:51,510
start to think for themselves the UFOs

3036
02:16:56,780 --> 02:16:54,059
would be also the intelligence behind it

3037
02:16:59,900 --> 02:16:56,790
dr. main would be both the craft and the

3038
02:17:03,500 --> 02:16:59,910
intelligence so they're self determined

3039
02:17:04,879 --> 02:17:03,510
yeah that would that's someone's

3040
02:17:08,570 --> 02:17:04,889
traveling forward to me on that feeling

3041
02:17:10,129 --> 02:17:08,580
I haven't signed up to it fully but it's

3042
02:17:12,320 --> 02:17:10,139
just as convincing as any other for me

3043
02:17:14,240 --> 02:17:12,330
well I like terence mckenna's theory

3044
02:17:16,940 --> 02:17:14,250
that we already have aliens here in

3045
02:17:19,070 --> 02:17:16,950
there called mushrooms and they're here

3046
02:17:21,950 --> 02:17:19,080
to help jump-start consciousness Peschel

3047
02:17:23,900 --> 02:17:21,960
e the magic mushrooms the psilocybin ant

3048
02:17:26,310 --> 02:17:23,910
with the you know the tryptamines and

3049
02:17:28,710 --> 02:17:26,320
that that they were seated

3050
02:17:30,180 --> 02:17:28,720
and mushroom spores of course are one of

3051
02:17:32,701 --> 02:17:30,190
the few life-forms that can survive the

3052
02:17:34,831 --> 02:17:32,711
vacuum of space and live millions of

3053
02:17:37,560 --> 02:17:34,841
years in a vacuum and then actually

3054
02:17:40,081 --> 02:17:37,570
become my cilia you know spring into

3055
02:17:42,780 --> 02:17:40,091
into action and become my Sicilian and

3056
02:17:44,340 --> 02:17:42,790
create more mushrooms but I I've always

3057
02:17:47,100 --> 02:17:44,350
found that thinking very out-of-the-box

3058
02:17:49,170 --> 02:17:47,110
and very creative that aliens are

3059
02:17:51,780 --> 02:17:49,180
already here and they're magic mushrooms

3060
02:17:53,940 --> 02:17:51,790
I love that it's as a ring to it I don't

3061
02:17:55,470 --> 02:17:53,950
know that was a conversation stopper

3062
02:17:57,210 --> 02:17:55,480
guys Oh

3063
02:17:59,250 --> 02:17:57,220
what is your feeling about all this have

3064
02:18:01,380 --> 02:17:59,260
you explored the trickster element all

3065
02:18:03,960 --> 02:18:01,390
these they can be considered peripheral

3066
02:18:05,940 --> 02:18:03,970
issues about they might be core issues

3067
02:18:08,220 --> 02:18:05,950
about the UFO mystery

3068
02:18:10,020 --> 02:18:08,230
the trickster issue is just what I said

3069
02:18:12,840 --> 02:18:10,030
a moment ago that I think that that's

3070
02:18:14,760 --> 02:18:12,850
that makes me think that's human

3071
02:18:17,400 --> 02:18:14,770
intelligence though I'm involved in any

3072
02:18:20,150 --> 02:18:17,410
of them individual classes however the

3073
02:18:23,460 --> 02:18:20,160
maneuvers of the craft would differ

3074
02:18:26,670 --> 02:18:23,470
again or you never know because you read

3075
02:18:30,300 --> 02:18:26,680
things from Nick crock about craft the

3076
02:18:32,760 --> 02:18:30,310
start time and space decades ago and

3077
02:18:35,610 --> 02:18:32,770
that's my conflict up at the moment

3078
02:18:37,980 --> 02:18:35,620
between Cox TV and Hairston's babies

3079
02:18:40,020 --> 02:18:37,990
slip off every confidence in the four

3080
02:18:43,170 --> 02:18:40,030
very intelligent guys are doing the

3081
02:18:45,090 --> 02:18:43,180
research and it's hard to pick between

3082
02:18:46,260 --> 02:18:45,100
the two but I do see a conflict that now

3083
02:18:49,590 --> 02:18:46,270
doesn't actually address that your I

3084
02:18:51,690 --> 02:18:49,600
don't think as far as I know hi yes a

3085
02:18:54,360 --> 02:18:51,700
question it occurs to me here do you

3086
02:18:56,280 --> 02:18:54,370
hope to keep your research armchair

3087
02:18:57,871 --> 02:18:56,290
you'll look over the data or do you want

3088
02:18:59,430 --> 02:18:57,881
to go out in the field and see what's

3089
02:19:01,201 --> 02:18:59,440
going on and try to find the evidence

3090
02:19:04,291 --> 02:19:01,211
directly do you want to collect the

3091
02:19:07,770 --> 02:19:04,301
evidence directly at the moment at the

3092
02:19:08,280 --> 02:19:07,780
moment just type in from home what you

3093
02:19:11,070 --> 02:19:08,290
mean

3094
02:19:14,400 --> 02:19:11,080
one day I decide to go out and do a bit

3095
02:19:16,081 --> 02:19:14,410
field work that's a good point here do

3096
02:19:18,270 --> 02:19:16,091
you think we need to do any more field

3097
02:19:19,980 --> 02:19:18,280
work or is the information already out

3098
02:19:25,291 --> 02:19:19,990
there we just have to collect it and

3099
02:19:28,230 --> 02:19:25,301
figure it out I'm thinking at the moment

3100
02:19:30,350 --> 02:19:28,240
is that the accumulated cases on top of

3101
02:19:33,180 --> 02:19:30,360
the line there but I can't see any point

3102
02:19:36,810 --> 02:19:33,190
like you say we've done supposed to been

3103
02:19:37,830 --> 02:19:36,820
so much of that done so your points well

3104
02:19:40,950 --> 02:19:37,840
made

3105
02:19:42,919 --> 02:19:40,960
or greener at the moment it's not

3106
02:19:47,490 --> 02:19:42,929
doesn't seem to be any point in doing so

3107
02:19:49,019 --> 02:19:47,500
no I disagree with our wealthy but I

3108
02:19:52,229 --> 02:19:49,029
thought I thought I'm so you mentioned

3109
02:19:53,399 --> 02:19:52,239
it you see you know you feel we still

3110
02:19:54,990 --> 02:19:53,409
don't have the quality of hard

3111
02:19:58,700 --> 02:19:55,000
scientific data that we need to really

3112
02:20:01,170 --> 02:19:58,710
make a determination and unless we throw

3113
02:20:03,660 --> 02:20:01,180
technology you know diagnostic

3114
02:20:05,330 --> 02:20:03,670
technology out the issue we're all we're

3115
02:20:08,370 --> 02:20:05,340
going to be doing is looking at

3116
02:20:10,349 --> 02:20:08,380
anecdotal reports occasionally we get

3117
02:20:12,510 --> 02:20:10,359
lucky and there's radar returns but

3118
02:20:15,389 --> 02:20:12,520
that's a few and far between and there's

3119
02:20:19,040 --> 02:20:15,399
not much you can really learn from just

3120
02:20:22,019 --> 02:20:19,050
a simple you know painting by a radar

3121
02:20:25,740 --> 02:20:22,029
like Chris and then not just changed

3122
02:20:27,210 --> 02:20:25,750
again so but that's not something I can

3123
02:20:33,179 --> 02:20:27,220
say that it's not something I just heard

3124
02:20:35,269 --> 02:20:33,189
on this show today okay well there's

3125
02:20:38,099 --> 02:20:35,279
lots of ways to skin the old proverbial

3126
02:20:39,359 --> 02:20:38,109
cat and Schrodinger's Box you know we

3127
02:20:42,179 --> 02:20:39,369
don't know if the cat's dead or alive

3128
02:20:43,590 --> 02:20:42,189
but we're sure gonna skin him that's

3129
02:20:47,370 --> 02:20:43,600
that's the way I look at it

3130
02:20:50,000 --> 02:20:47,380
my buddy Andrew who's he's a fellow Brit

3131
02:20:53,069 --> 02:20:50,010
he went to Oxford has a master's in

3132
02:20:56,609 --> 02:20:53,079
physics in the mechanical engineering

3133
02:20:58,769 --> 02:20:56,619
he's a very bright guy he wants to get a

3134
02:21:00,960 --> 02:20:58,779
surplus Stinger missile and just sit

3135
02:21:02,639 --> 02:21:00,970
there and just bring one down he says

3136
02:21:05,099 --> 02:21:02,649
that's the way to do it we'll just gotta

3137
02:21:07,410 --> 02:21:05,109
shoot one down then well then we'll have

3138
02:21:17,210 --> 02:21:07,420
some wreckage to look at and maybe we'll

3139
02:21:24,479 --> 02:21:21,389
look at the controversy here number one

3140
02:21:27,090 --> 02:21:24,489
is what's the impact would you shoot at

3141
02:21:28,710 --> 02:21:27,100
them and have them shoot back at you and

3142
02:21:31,559 --> 02:21:28,720
there was a book out some years back

3143
02:21:35,069 --> 02:21:31,569
called shoot them down about instances

3144
02:21:38,399 --> 02:21:35,079
in the 40s and 50s where we possibly

3145
02:21:40,490 --> 02:21:38,409
fired at a UFO so if you have this

3146
02:21:43,920 --> 02:21:40,500
advanced craft with advanced propulsion

3147
02:21:46,260 --> 02:21:43,930
weaponry systems you got to assume if we

3148
02:21:49,050 --> 02:21:46,270
fire at them they're perfectly capable

3149
02:21:50,730 --> 02:21:49,060
of firing back and we may not like the

3150
02:21:53,219 --> 02:21:50,740
consequences

3151
02:21:54,900 --> 02:21:53,229
yeah but Steven Greer has told us that

3152
02:21:57,660 --> 02:21:54,910
these are all benevolent space brothers

3153
02:22:02,010 --> 02:21:57,670
and they are not hostile so they would

3154
02:22:05,610 --> 02:22:02,020
take it and and come down and and maybe

3155
02:22:08,820 --> 02:22:05,620
maybe spank us sure they'll spank us

3156
02:22:10,710 --> 02:22:08,830
maybe the level a few cities that's a

3157
02:22:13,830 --> 02:22:10,720
good way to spank us oh you want to fire

3158
02:22:15,000 --> 02:22:13,840
at us okay let's just take out New York

3159
02:22:18,719 --> 02:22:15,010
City okay

3160
02:22:20,490 --> 02:22:18,729
Los Angeles no I think they target the

3161
02:22:23,250 --> 02:22:20,500
individual with a stinger that fired it

3162
02:22:25,670 --> 02:22:23,260
I think that they'd say okay you just

3163
02:22:29,010 --> 02:22:25,680
earned your anal probe

3164
02:22:30,719 --> 02:22:29,020
Paul Bunning is our guest this week we

3165
02:22:37,340 --> 02:22:30,729
have one more segment to come with

3166
02:22:46,950 --> 02:22:44,420
[Music]

3167
02:22:49,801 --> 02:22:46,960
so here's what happened I was placing an

3168
02:22:52,170 --> 02:22:49,811
order online the site went down it just

3169
02:22:53,910 --> 02:22:52,180
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3170
02:22:55,470 --> 02:22:53,920
it returned but I'd already placed the

3171
02:22:57,810 --> 02:22:55,480
order with another company if your site

3172
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goes down you could lose business and if

3173
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3174
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3175
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3176
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3178
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3179
02:23:15,360 --> 02:23:13,540
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3180
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3181
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3182
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3183
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3184
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3185
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3186
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3187
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3188
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3189
02:23:54,630 --> 02:24:00,020
and the improvement in the circulation

3190
02:24:26,790 --> 02:24:24,900
Reed was facing a tough choice order

3191
02:24:29,850 --> 02:24:26,800
heart and body extract at eight six six

3192
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3193
02:24:36,630 --> 02:24:32,710
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3194
02:24:41,370 --> 02:24:36,640
five or HB extract calm heart and body

3195
02:24:43,440 --> 02:24:41,380
extract for a long and healthy life hi

3196
02:24:45,330 --> 02:24:43,450
I'm mark Craig head founder of

3197
02:24:47,310 --> 02:24:45,340
crossbreed holsters I designed our

3198
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3199
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3202
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3203
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3205
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3206
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3207
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hi this is Ted Anderson have you ever

3208
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wondered why banks stockbrokers

3209
02:25:16,190 --> 02:25:14,260
investment advisors won't talk about

3210
02:25:18,750 --> 02:25:16,200
gold IRAs they've been available since

3211
02:25:20,520 --> 02:25:18,760
1986 yet the financial industry won't

3212
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recognize the value of gold for your

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retirement goal has outperformed paper

3214
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investments yet no word about IRAs if

3215
02:25:30,060 --> 02:25:26,380
you would like to have gold for your

3216
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retirement call 866 to 237 don't get

3217
02:26:01,770 --> 02:25:31,931
left behind by rising inflation and low

3218
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3219
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3220
02:26:07,591 --> 02:26:06,010
non-detectable levels and remove harmful

3221
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chemicals such as herbicides and

3222
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3225
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3226
02:26:19,921 --> 02:26:17,800
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3227
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3228
02:26:24,900 --> 02:26:22,061
set of fluoride and arsenic filters for

3229
02:26:25,710 --> 02:26:24,910
only $39.99 that's over 30 percent off

3230
02:26:27,960 --> 02:26:25,720
the retail price

3231
02:26:30,240 --> 02:26:27,970
call the Berkey guy at one eight seven

3232
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seven eight eight six three six five

3233
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3234
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eight six three six five three or order

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online at Gober Keep Calm

3236
02:26:43,140 --> 02:26:40,210
that's Gober Keep Calm today are you

3237
02:26:45,970 --> 02:26:43,150
tired of searching for great talk radio

3238
02:26:58,080 --> 02:26:45,980
helping you more important search

3239
02:27:05,240 --> 02:27:00,790
hi my name is Richard Dolan you're

3240
02:27:05,250 --> 02:27:08,530
[Music]

3241
02:27:14,170 --> 02:27:11,500
what kind of probe Wells as a family

3242
02:27:17,559 --> 02:27:14,180
radio show we will not convey the image

3243
02:27:21,280 --> 02:27:17,569
any clearer that already is Paul budding

3244
02:27:24,400 --> 02:27:21,290
about new ufology I'm Jean Steinberg the

3245
02:27:26,889 --> 02:27:24,410
co-host is Chris O'Brien and we're

3246
02:27:29,969 --> 02:27:26,899
trying to wrap it up here so let me ask

3247
02:27:32,830 --> 02:27:29,979
you an interesting question here if you

3248
02:27:36,190 --> 02:27:32,840
discovered that all this UFO stuff was

3249
02:27:38,370 --> 02:27:36,200
just misidentified conventional objects

3250
02:27:41,980 --> 02:27:38,380
as the debunkers have said all along

3251
02:27:45,780 --> 02:27:41,990
would you feel disappointed yeah I think

3252
02:27:49,090 --> 02:27:45,790
I'm a little bit but not so much as to

3253
02:27:51,760 --> 02:27:49,100
feel devastated or wise that way

3254
02:27:53,559 --> 02:27:51,770
twisting all about because well it's

3255
02:27:56,290 --> 02:27:53,569
facts it would be it would have been

3256
02:27:59,230 --> 02:27:56,300
good reason to look into it I mean some

3257
02:28:02,349 --> 02:27:59,240
of the people who have being told it was

3258
02:28:04,300 --> 02:28:02,359
told us that there's been UFOs over

3259
02:28:06,610 --> 02:28:04,310
themselves you can miss out sites in

3260
02:28:09,309 --> 02:28:06,620
America are very well qualified to say

3261
02:28:12,250 --> 02:28:09,319
so so if it all came out is wrong I

3262
02:28:15,700 --> 02:28:12,260
would be thinking well I was misled by

3263
02:28:16,960 --> 02:28:15,710
extremely well-qualified people into

3264
02:28:19,800 --> 02:28:16,970
thinking that there was something to

3265
02:28:21,849 --> 02:28:19,810
this phenomenon so I wouldn't feel

3266
02:28:23,860 --> 02:28:21,859
embarrassed because I would still feel I

3267
02:28:27,940 --> 02:28:23,870
was able to say why it was that I

3268
02:28:30,010 --> 02:28:27,950
thought what I did and what there it

3269
02:28:32,710 --> 02:28:30,020
being just a disappointment you know

3270
02:28:35,170 --> 02:28:32,720
there was just all natural phenomena I

3271
02:28:37,090 --> 02:28:35,180
suppose yeah but I think that that's an

3272
02:28:38,889 --> 02:28:37,100
unrealistic question Jean because I

3273
02:28:40,900 --> 02:28:38,899
don't think that there's any possibility

3274
02:28:43,750 --> 02:28:40,910
of that being true there's just too much

3275
02:28:44,920 --> 02:28:43,760
good evidence to support you know the

3276
02:28:46,330 --> 02:28:44,930
contention that there is something

3277
02:28:47,769 --> 02:28:46,340
flying around in our airspace that we

3278
02:28:49,840 --> 02:28:47,779
have not identified and that the

3279
02:28:51,040 --> 02:28:49,850
government knows and that there you know

3280
02:28:52,929 --> 02:28:51,050
they can't do anything about it so

3281
02:28:54,250 --> 02:28:52,939
they're like ostriches sticking their

3282
02:28:56,410 --> 02:28:54,260
heads in the sand and they just don't

3283
02:28:59,019 --> 02:28:56,420
want to deal with it so well the other

3284
02:29:01,120 --> 02:28:59,029
direction I was asking is to get his

3285
02:29:03,309 --> 02:29:01,130
attitude towards a subject not so much

3286
02:29:04,960 --> 02:29:03,319
the reality I don't think we expect

3287
02:29:06,750 --> 02:29:04,970
there to be no answer we expect there's

3288
02:29:09,370 --> 02:29:06,760
going to be an answer out there and

3289
02:29:11,559 --> 02:29:09,380
somehow we have to figure it out but the

3290
02:29:14,019 --> 02:29:11,569
other question is and I'll post that

3291
02:29:15,940 --> 02:29:14,029
with you Paul which is what does the

3292
02:29:18,250 --> 02:29:15,950
government know what do they really know

3293
02:29:20,590 --> 02:29:18,260
do they know anything or is it more than

3294
02:29:22,189 --> 02:29:20,600
just hiding their heads in the sand but

3295
02:29:25,699 --> 02:29:22,199
just refusing to consider

3296
02:29:27,679 --> 02:29:25,709
they haven't a clue I think they know

3297
02:29:30,889 --> 02:29:27,689
that there's something to the phenomena

3298
02:29:32,899 --> 02:29:30,899
they know that Matthew is the clintons

3299
02:29:35,989 --> 02:29:32,909
quartz expressed it quite well

3300
02:29:37,399 --> 02:29:35,999
he said Sarah there's a government

3301
02:29:43,279 --> 02:29:37,409
inside the government tonight our

3302
02:29:44,959 --> 02:29:43,289
control I think that suggests that he's

3303
02:29:46,760 --> 02:29:44,969
wondering are there's something to this

3304
02:29:48,529 --> 02:29:46,770
I'm quite interested I'm interested in

3305
02:29:50,599 --> 02:29:48,539
everything maybe that's what Hillary

3306
02:29:51,529 --> 02:29:50,609
Clinton thinks build it was like she

3307
02:29:52,159 --> 02:29:51,539
thinks that he's interested in

3308
02:29:54,439 --> 02:29:52,169
everything

3309
02:29:57,109 --> 02:29:54,449
well I think that don't want to say the

3310
02:29:59,179 --> 02:29:57,119
president can't a disclosure because he

3311
02:30:03,289 --> 02:29:59,189
knows that he knows what he doesn't know

3312
02:30:04,999 --> 02:30:03,299
he knows that he's not aware of a less

3313
02:30:06,739 --> 02:30:05,009
hostile a lot and it can be absolutely

3314
02:30:08,029 --> 02:30:06,749
certainly my instincts they're not

3315
02:30:10,309 --> 02:30:08,039
because they haven't done anything yet

3316
02:30:13,219 --> 02:30:10,319
but they've been messing that we've been

3317
02:30:16,069 --> 02:30:13,229
messing the you killer missiles in

3318
02:30:18,260 --> 02:30:16,079
America deactivated them apparently and

3319
02:30:21,349 --> 02:30:18,270
as I mentioned the other example I like

3320
02:30:25,399 --> 02:30:21,359
to give is the conquest light that if

3321
02:30:27,639 --> 02:30:25,409
chest UFOs time time again I've been

3322
02:30:31,010 --> 02:30:27,649
Akash them so they're superior

3323
02:30:33,189 --> 02:30:31,020
technologically so I think that no

3324
02:30:35,630 --> 02:30:33,199
president can come out and disclose this

3325
02:30:37,130 --> 02:30:35,640
because although they might know that

3326
02:30:39,349 --> 02:30:37,140
there's something going on they don't

3327
02:30:42,590 --> 02:30:39,359
know what it is and they only know that

3328
02:30:44,659 --> 02:30:42,600
it's superior so that millions in there

3329
02:30:47,359 --> 02:30:44,669
probably compartmentalized out of the

3330
02:30:50,619 --> 02:30:47,369
the main loop of the insiders who really

3331
02:30:53,479 --> 02:30:50,629
know the most I'm assuming here is

3332
02:30:55,249 --> 02:30:53,489
possibly residents I don't have a need

3333
02:30:56,779 --> 02:30:55,259
to know some of this stuff

3334
02:30:59,420 --> 02:30:56,789
that's why Clinton made the comment that

3335
02:31:00,889 --> 02:30:59,430
he did because he doesn't know what is

3336
02:31:02,989 --> 02:31:00,899
going on I think most of this

3337
02:31:05,649 --> 02:31:02,999
information at least in my opinion is

3338
02:31:08,929 --> 02:31:05,659
within the department's of Defense

3339
02:31:12,289 --> 02:31:08,939
within the aerospace companies some of

3340
02:31:15,649 --> 02:31:12,299
your research think tanks I think know a

3341
02:31:17,739 --> 02:31:15,659
lot more than your average president or

3342
02:31:19,760 --> 02:31:17,749
politician I don't think that they're

3343
02:31:25,550 --> 02:31:19,770
classified high in a high enough level

3344
02:31:29,349 --> 02:31:25,560
to to be in the loop George Bush come

3345
02:31:31,880 --> 02:31:29,359
into the need to know point and what

3346
02:31:34,200 --> 02:31:31,890
that just pushes the question a bit

3347
02:31:36,540 --> 02:31:34,210
further and these people who

3348
02:31:38,250 --> 02:31:36,550
No who don't say anything to the

3349
02:31:40,110 --> 02:31:38,260
president it's how much they know I'm

3350
02:31:41,969 --> 02:31:40,120
not sure if I'm not sure if they have

3351
02:31:45,210 --> 02:31:41,979
the answer to these questions that right

3352
02:31:46,590 --> 02:31:45,220
to understand to be like today's no they

3353
02:31:49,010 --> 02:31:46,600
know a lot more than we do that's why

3354
02:31:51,719 --> 02:31:49,020
they're that much more confused more

3355
02:31:53,550 --> 02:31:51,729
confused therefore yes well that would

3356
02:31:55,590 --> 02:31:53,560
be the other issue here with regard to

3357
02:31:59,190 --> 02:31:55,600
presidential knowledge or any government

3358
02:32:01,680 --> 02:31:59,200
leader anywhere now obviously here you

3359
02:32:03,150 --> 02:32:01,690
know the effect wouldn't be as serious

3360
02:32:06,180 --> 02:32:03,160
but you have to imagine what's going to

3361
02:32:08,010 --> 02:32:06,190
happen in a totalitarian government if

3362
02:32:10,500 --> 02:32:08,020
there was any evidence that the Emperor

3363
02:32:13,200 --> 02:32:10,510
the king whoever whatever they weren't

3364
02:32:16,050 --> 02:32:13,210
told what are they gonna do hmm

3365
02:32:17,040 --> 02:32:16,060
ouch that would be scary I wouldn't want

3366
02:32:23,240 --> 02:32:17,050
to be on the receiving end of that

3367
02:32:31,230 --> 02:32:23,250
tangent is what would have invaded it

3368
02:32:33,990 --> 02:32:31,240
sure yeah what would Qadhafi do just

3369
02:32:37,620 --> 02:32:34,000
beyond our modern Western culture as if

3370
02:32:40,260 --> 02:32:37,630
I was not quite sure how they think it's

3371
02:32:45,630 --> 02:32:40,270
easy living on the Jin it's easy to

3372
02:32:49,830 --> 02:32:45,640
imagine how they can prime minister our

3373
02:32:52,680 --> 02:32:49,840
president would react then it is Libyan

3374
02:32:55,380 --> 02:32:52,690
president I would say it's had my

3375
02:32:57,240 --> 02:32:55,390
Chinese about the Chinese I mean there's

3376
02:32:59,070 --> 02:32:57,250
the largest UFO group on the planet is

3377
02:33:02,190 --> 02:32:59,080
half a million people belong to a UFO

3378
02:33:04,440 --> 02:33:02,200
group in China the Chinese know a lot

3379
02:33:06,690 --> 02:33:04,450
more than they're letting on there's

3380
02:33:08,310 --> 02:33:06,700
some anxieties that North Korea they're

3381
02:33:10,740 --> 02:33:08,320
so secretive that the sound like a

3382
02:33:13,050 --> 02:33:10,750
fictional text when you leave newspaper

3383
02:33:15,930 --> 02:33:13,060
articles on them so we're not quite sure

3384
02:33:18,090 --> 02:33:15,940
how how they think another culture would

3385
02:33:20,430 --> 02:33:18,100
react their society would react and so

3386
02:33:22,410 --> 02:33:20,440
on well we know from America for

3387
02:33:23,910 --> 02:33:22,420
instance because not like you might

3388
02:33:25,830 --> 02:33:23,920
argue this because it was once I had a

3389
02:33:27,410 --> 02:33:25,840
girl why the world's message on the

3390
02:33:29,790 --> 02:33:27,420
radios at New Jersey

3391
02:33:32,370 --> 02:33:29,800
showed that there was some panic thing

3392
02:33:34,469 --> 02:33:32,380
and people say well maybe we've got more

3393
02:33:38,010 --> 02:33:34,479
mature and I won't react the same way

3394
02:33:40,020 --> 02:33:38,020
but the Milgram experiment has been

3395
02:33:42,000 --> 02:33:40,030
repeated since and people say well we

3396
02:33:43,800 --> 02:33:42,010
will react different now to that and we

3397
02:33:45,361 --> 02:33:43,810
haven't so I'm not sure we'll have too

3398
02:33:48,190 --> 02:33:45,371
much changes in them

3399
02:33:51,491 --> 02:33:48,200
psychological reactions I think I think

3400
02:33:53,140 --> 02:33:51,501
there's something in the in that some

3401
02:33:54,310 --> 02:33:53,150
people would be panic buying it cause we

3402
02:33:58,270 --> 02:33:54,320
were conservative mindset

3403
02:34:00,520 --> 02:33:58,280
psychologically perhaps yeah I I think

3404
02:34:05,081 --> 02:34:00,530
people have been programmed by the media

3405
02:34:06,371 --> 02:34:05,091
and by pop culture enough to I think

3406
02:34:07,871 --> 02:34:06,381
it's different from when it was back

3407
02:34:10,801 --> 02:34:07,881
when Orson Welles did that that the

3408
02:34:13,871 --> 02:34:10,811
infamous broadcast in 30 I think was 38

3409
02:34:16,180 --> 02:34:13,881
but I think kids now if you ask the

3410
02:34:17,861 --> 02:34:16,190
average 10 to 15 year olds are there

3411
02:34:19,301 --> 02:34:17,871
aliens you're sure they're aliens lot

3412
02:34:25,661 --> 02:34:19,311
say aliens man haven't you ever seen

3413
02:34:29,261 --> 02:34:25,671
Star Wars or you know weird shots and

3414
02:34:31,390 --> 02:34:29,271
Chris the theory of course is that there

3415
02:34:34,361 --> 02:34:31,400
are elements some of those movies to get

3416
02:34:37,301 --> 02:34:34,371
us ready by Close Encounters for example

3417
02:34:40,001 --> 02:34:37,311
or et warm and fuzzy et's any of these

3418
02:34:42,761 --> 02:34:40,011
movies have elements to get us

3419
02:34:45,371 --> 02:34:42,771
acquainted with the concept and the

3420
02:34:47,261 --> 02:34:45,381
reality that et is there and they're

3421
02:34:48,961 --> 02:34:47,271
visiting us they might landsem because

3422
02:34:51,220 --> 02:34:48,971
that's the entire issue here is

3423
02:34:54,251 --> 02:34:51,230
disclosure dependent on someone

3424
02:34:58,060 --> 02:34:54,261
revealing what they know or that force

3425
02:35:02,261 --> 02:34:58,070
revealing what they are also feeling

3426
02:35:06,100 --> 02:35:02,271
what they are and also the question

3427
02:35:08,881 --> 02:35:06,110
earlier bombs and people respect respect

3428
02:35:11,741 --> 02:35:08,891
for scientists came into the field and

3429
02:35:13,871 --> 02:35:11,751
making more and more more conformist

3430
02:35:17,591 --> 02:35:13,881
familiar easy to accept more mainstream

3431
02:35:19,421 --> 02:35:17,601
and then I think people start to accept

3432
02:35:20,921 --> 02:35:19,431
but this sounds a heck of a lot more

3433
02:35:24,430 --> 02:35:20,931
simple just to say they may actually

3434
02:35:27,690 --> 02:35:24,440
happen in that I don't expect that to

3435
02:35:28,871 --> 02:35:27,700
happen overnight could be a decade-long

3436
02:35:30,881 --> 02:35:28,881
process

3437
02:35:35,341 --> 02:35:30,891
Paul budding tell our listeners where

3438
02:35:41,951 --> 02:35:40,001
god duck stock website you do you mean

3439
02:35:50,261 --> 02:35:41,961
to give her justice over the raise your

3440
02:35:55,890 --> 02:35:50,271
web address yes it's HTTP dot dot www

3441
02:35:59,301 --> 02:35:55,900
dot doc stock.com forward slash profile

3442
02:36:06,820 --> 02:35:59,311
/o what that's beautiful

3443
02:36:10,850 --> 02:36:08,961
all right well the UFO institute.org

3444
02:36:12,591 --> 02:36:10,860
isn't that a good place to find what you

3445
02:36:14,810 --> 02:36:12,601
do yeah okay

3446
02:36:17,810 --> 02:36:14,820
so let's just go for UFO institute.org

3447
02:36:19,970 --> 02:36:17,820
and by the way we have a link over at

3448
02:36:23,060 --> 02:36:19,980
the para caste calm so our listeners can

3449
02:36:25,100 --> 02:36:23,070
find it and they can get a hold of the

3450
02:36:27,140 --> 02:36:25,110
information about you your blogs your

3451
02:36:28,730 --> 02:36:27,150
work everything else Chris O'Brien where

3452
02:36:31,490 --> 02:36:28,740
do we find more of your stuff

3453
02:36:33,950 --> 02:36:31,500
well I'll be at the MUFON international

3454
02:36:36,440 --> 02:36:33,960
symposium in Irvine California this

3455
02:36:37,131 --> 02:36:36,450
weekend so if you're there grab me and

3456
02:36:39,410 --> 02:36:37,141
say hello

3457
02:36:42,261 --> 02:36:39,420
during the neighborhood also have a

3458
02:36:44,440 --> 02:36:42,271
website our strange planet calm and you

3459
02:36:47,301 --> 02:36:44,450
can find me lurking around at forum

3460
02:36:50,270 --> 02:36:47,311
liberec as calm and I want to thank Paul

3461
02:36:53,801 --> 02:36:50,280
for being on the show and we look

3462
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decide exactly what's on but maybe it

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will confirm some of the issues raised

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02:37:10,969 --> 02:37:01,380
in this interview thanks for joining us

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the para cast featuring Jean Steinberg

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and Christopher O'Brien is a copyrighted

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presentation of making the impossible